Harmonized scale 7th chords

Dennis Montgomery · From: Western Washington

Hi all, I'm just finding my way with E9 and noticed there are many examples of how to smoothly play a harmonized scale with triads vertically on a single fret or horizontally up the neck. What I'm looking for is how to do the same thing with a harmonized 7th chord scale (CMaj7, Dm7, Em7, FMaj7, G7, Am7, Bdim7).

I can cherry pick the right 7th chords, but they don't flow as well as the available examples harmonizing the triads. Could someone point me to a youtube vid or some tab demonstrating this? I've looked and can't locate anything.

Thanks Wink

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

It canâ€™t be done, at least with standard 3P/4L. You get the 1M7, 2m7, 3m7, and V7 at the no pedals home fret. The 4M7 is 5 frets up. With AB down, you donâ€™t even have a M7 to start from.

You might find it more interesting and maybe even easier trying to move vertically on the fretboard with 7th chord scales.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

There are lots of ways to do it but the grips are harder on E9th than on C6th. Here are a couple:

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

Yes, b0b, but there is no way to do it on E9 at one fret or with the same grips up and down the neck like you can with triads, or like you can do on your D6. Thatâ€™s what I thought Dennis was getting at.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Correct. It's almost possible on one fret, but you need 3 knees levers at once for the iii chord and the grips are horrible.

Dennis Montgomery · From: Western Washington

Fred is correct, I was looking for a way to do this on a single fret or with minimal grip changes.

bOb, you mentioned doing this on C6/Uni-12/your hybrid D6 on a single grip, could you please show me the tab to make those happen?

Thanks!
Dennis

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Dennis Montgomery · From: Western Washington

Thanks bOb, as always you're a great resource Wink

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

I had an epiphany of sorts last week, thinking about this thread. Everyone knows the maj7, dom7, and half-diminished grip on strings 8-6-5-2. What I didnâ€™t know was how the half-A pedal technique from the Winnie book could be applied to something other than an aug triad or minor triad with B pedal.

Try this:
String..........Fret
2................0
5................0 (1/2 A)
6................0
8................0 (F)

The notes are F-Ab-C-Eb, or Fm7. This m7 provides a way to slide between a m7 and all the other 7th chords on these strings without changing grip.

Try this one too:
String..........Fret
1................0 (G)
2................0
5................0 (1/2 A)
6................0
The notes are Ab-C-Eb-G, or Abmaj7. Lose the G lever and you have Ab7. The m7 and m7b5 are already common to this grip, so again the half-A pedal provides the route to a full 7th chord scale all on the same 4 strings.

While this is certainly not my own discovery, I am pretty excited about finding it and thought it was worth a share here. I have not aced the half-A pedal move by a long shot. But it is now something I am putting in the bag of tricks and taking to the woodshed.

John Goux · From: California, USA

Nice work, Fred. I had not thought of these. Do you use 3 finger picks strike all 4 notes together?
I do use the 8-6-5-2 grip, and with the G# to G lowers on 6 and 3 it is very easy to play the 7th chords up the scale using that and the Str 2 lower. The D#mi7b5 is the stickler as my B to Bb lower is on the same knee.
John

Ron Pruter · From: Arizona, USA

Epiphanies would be a great new category for the forum. I too have had them. Some are real forehead slappers. "Why didn't I think of that, or why of course"
One of my first was finding a great min.6th...
Example would be, your A/B down @ fret 3 ; now slide up to fret 4th fret with just your F lever. It goes from C to a nice Cm6. This works great for the 4th bar of Desperado. Throw in the second string for the last note of that melody. RP
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Fred Treece · From: California, USA

Jeremiah Wade · From: Bladenboro, NC

Diatonic 7ths E9th Key of G

Jeremiah Wade · From: Bladenboro, NC

Thanks Bob!
The B to Bb lower in combination with AB E to Eb lower also provides a full diminished chord that is actually in tune to my ears. I tune my E to F lever to sound best in combination with my A pedal. The diminished 7th chord found with the F lever sound out of tune to me.
Although it has many other good functions, these are the two reasons I find this lever a priority on my setup.
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Fred Treece · From: California, USA

Jeremiah Wade · From: Bladenboro, NC

Here's Diatonic 7th's on the same strings using A, B, B to Bb lever, E to d# lever, and F# to G to G# lever

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

Wow! Good job, Jeremiah. So much for â€œit canâ€™t be done on E9â€...

I donâ€™t have two of those changes on my guitar, so I was just working with what I had. I doubt if I could have figured out your version of the scale even if I did have them... but hey, whatever it takes to open up the harmonic possibilities, right?

Question for you - It appears that you have a half-stop on your F#>G# lever. If so, does the half stop keep the D# from raising halfway to E?

I would sure like a half stop on my A pedal. You mentioned that your Bb lever works to split the A. If it were possible to combine the E raise and the A split with Bb lever, that would work on the 2 scales with the changes I described. My E-raise half diminished chord sounds fine to me Cool

John Goux · From: California, USA

Jeremiah, great job.
That 7th degree Bm7b5 requires me to half pedal the A, because my B to Bb and E lower is on the same knee, opposite side.
It can be done but pretty difficult for me.

As an alternative, here are some Bm7b5 grips that are on convenient frets to your layout and require a minimum of string changes, in some cases just moving one finger over for that chord. One is at the same fret 15 with the pedals down major 7th.

Cheers, John

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Typically the half-stop is timed to be the point where D# starts raising. Before the half-stop, it acts like the old F#

G lever.
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Fred Treece · From: California, USA

Thanks, b0b.

Jeremiah Wade · From: Bladenboro, NC

Yes Fred. There is a feel stop created by timing the raise starting point. John nice half-dims thanks!
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