| Author |
Topic: Clean Highs Dilemma |
Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
|
Posted 1 Jun 2018 8:41 pm |
|
Record yourself, and then compare the recording to your actual playing. The simple fact is that we don't hear ourselves like we hear other players, nor do other players hear us like we hear ourselves. Everything is jaded by what we expect to hear vs. the reality of what we do hear. Here are some questions that may shed light on your issue. Have you played on other player's rigs, and with their tone settings? Did you sound better or worse? Do you know any other players near you that are getting the sound and tone you like? What are they using? If none of that helps, then just do the best with what you have.
My own solutions are more simple and direct. Forget 40 year old sounds, and above all, forget trying to sound like someone else. Work (and think) in the present because...like it or not...that's where you are.
Things change, and we change. I have no doubt that in 1990, even Buddy couldn't sound exactly like he did in 1966. |
|
|
|
Greg Thompson
From:
Taumarunui, New Zealand
|
Posted 1 Jun 2018 9:11 pm
|
|
| Jerry have you tried NYXL strings? |
|
|
|
George Kimery
From:
Limestone, TN, USA
|
Posted 2 Jun 2018 4:39 am Clean highs dilemma
|
|
| I have always fought the same issue. Different guitars, different amps, different volume pedals, etc. still was always fighting that shrill on the high end. After watching Paul Franklin's demo on his Eminence PF-350 speaker and listening and hearing his claim that this speaker would make the highs silky smooth and get rid of the shrill, I talked myself into trying one, in spite of it's heavy weight. It has worked for me and I found to my ears, Paul was right on point about the speakers response. |
|
|
|
Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
|
Posted 2 Jun 2018 6:59 am
|
|
Thanks Paul for your expertise and taking time to add your professional pertinent and relative insight. It is very much respected and appreciated. I shall indeed re-examine some of those areas.
I probably shouldn't point out my shortcomings in front of the community here...you know what they say about showing weakness...never let 'em see you sweat etc., but it's all honest musing. I stated earlier that I've been at it for about 40 yrs., but one is never too old or experienced to learn and perhaps some expert input into this discussion will help someone else with similar issues as well.
For the rest of the gear lineup, it is mostly all mosfet amps and analog preamps, reverbs etc. except for a couple of Boss/Roland multi-fx units for spatial effects...pot pedals. My LeMay NV400 is a head so I can use an assortment of speakers. With that amp, I normally use just an old Ibanez AD-80 analog delay box with the amp's spring reverb which has been updated with a MOD tank. I tend to favor pretty robust pickups of around 19, 20k ohms. My Mullens were all 22K. The current MCI pups are 10-1 GL's.
With my MosValve stereo rigs, I use generally a couple of 80's Black Widow 1201-8 cabinets. These are the paper cone, alum. dome models. I like these better than the later version 1201 and 1203. I also have some old Spider Web 15's and 12's. Some more modern 1501 SB's too and other assorted later 12's. I am not concerned with the heavy magnets. I'm interested in sound quality over handling convenience.
I put most of this stuff together way back in the early 90's. I've spent a lot of time and thinking about these electronics and I believe I have acquired a quite capable assortment of gear. No matter, at this stage of my life and due to economic circumstances, replacing, updating gear is not an option. I'd love to try Paul's new speaker and maybe the sweet tube amps, but it's just not possible presently. I don't think I'm going to be starting over with gear at this stage.
I think I just need to re-examine some of my personal habits and re-dedicate myself to getting the most out of myself.
Thanks everyone for your input.
Regarding Mr. Hughey and other professionals who work up high a bit, I never thought they sounded shrill or harsh. In fact, John Hughey's playing up there defines the technique far as I'm concerned. There's an art to causing those goose bumps. I hope I find it, or get closer to it at least, before I hang up my picks.
Perhaps some other clarification is in order. It's not particularly the sound of the 70's I seek, I posted JD Call's work with PPL as an example of the sweet, clean highs I'm describing. I expect his sound is different now that it was in 1974, but I bet the quality of his tone and execution remains at least as high. That's the point.
We have many steel players in this area. I've sat in on several of their rigs. I always sound like me.
No, I have not tried the new NYXL's, but I'm interested. But I reiterate I don't think my issue is gear related. I'm going to try some of the things mentioned here by Paul and others concerning technique and execution which will hopefully elevate my level of satisfaction. Thanks again. |
|
|
|
Richard Alderson
From:
Illinois, USA
|
Posted 2 Jun 2018 11:13 am
|
|
| Quote: |
| There's an art to causing those goose bumps. I hope I find it, before I hang up my picks. |
Jerry - I think you are making a contribution to the English language here. I've heard it said many ways, "he broke his pipe", "he kicked the bucket", but I have never heard "Today he hung up his picks for good",
But I say with all respect this is a great thread. Chasing those goose bumps is part of what all steel fans and players alike are after, and I am sitting back here just reading all this great advise that your question has brought out. I like the part about "when I sit down at my friend's gear, it still sounds like me"; We all sound like ourselves even when playing different guitars, its the reflection of our musical soul in the instrument. You say "its not about gear, its about me" .... that's a great lesson right there.
_________________
Derby SD-10 5x6; GFI S-10 5x5; GFI S-10 5x5; Zum D-10 8x7; Zum D-10 9x9; Fender 400; Fender Rumble 200; Nashville 400; Telonics TCA-500. |
|
|
|
Brad Malone
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
|
Posted 2 Jun 2018 11:26 am Right gear and skill
|
|
| Hey George K, thanks to the SGF we get great information from top pro's like Paul Franklin..just think of all the work he went through to get the right combination. Remember, you cannot win an auto race with a bicycle one has to have the right gear and skill to compete. Playing Steel and buying all the right equipment is costly..plus the time spent learning to play it..that's why the steel guitar community is so very small...very few young people want to spend the time and energy to become proficient..it is a long haul. |
|
|
|
Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
|
Posted 2 Jun 2018 11:27 am
|
|
| When I'm satisfied with my tone otherwise but find the highs a bit shrill, I re-position the speaker 5-10 degrees off axis to my ear. That usually solves the problem. |
|
|
|
Damir Besic
From:
Nashville,TN.
|
Posted 2 Jun 2018 3:18 pm
|
|
your tone will depend on many things, from your playing to your equipment and surrounding, playing on the wooden open stage will make your tone much warmer then playing on the concrete floor with a big glass window behind you etc etc.., one night you may love your tone, next night you will hate it, it will change without you turning a single knob ... it happens so often to me that I don’t even pay attention to that any more, I just ignore it and try to make the best out of it...
_________________
https://steelguitarsonline.com/ |
|
|
|
Dave Campbell
From:
Nova Scotia, Canada
|
Posted 2 Jun 2018 3:29 pm
|
|
| i echo donny hinson's thoughts. i fight with the treble knob al the time, but most of that fight is in my head. when i listen back to recordings i find that the highs are where i wanted them to be...nothing else was, of course, but that's another ball game. |
|
|
|
Greg Thompson
From:
Taumarunui, New Zealand
|
Posted 2 Jun 2018 3:54 pm
|
|
| Hey Jerry, thanks for hanging out your 'dirty washing' we all learn from others experiences. It ain't called a 'time machine' for nothing. FYI I have experienced a complete tonal difference dependent on which rollers are installed. If brass rollers are used compared to aluminum, what a shrill difference for want of better terminology. Just a thought. Do try those NYXl's, I'm sure you will be impressed with tonal improvement,so long as your not running brass rollers. |
|
|
|
Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
|
Posted 4 Jun 2018 3:02 pm
|
|
| Richard Alderson wrote: |
| Quote: |
| There's an art to causing those goose bumps. I hope I find it, before I hang up my picks. |
Jerry I've heard it said many ways, "he broke his pipe", "he kicked the bucket", but I have never heard "Today he hung up his picks for good",
But I say with all respect this is a great thread. Chasing those goose bumps is part of what all steel fans and players alike are after...[clipped partial quote] |
Thanks Richard. Yeah, long before I started playing steel, I heard those things that gave me goose bumps. Lots of stuff from the country rock to the pure country players. I never imagined that I would be ever be able to afford a pedal steel guitar and/or learn how to play it. It's been a pretty good experience and my life was changed because of it. I just never quite reached the level I wanted.
Anyhow, I'm probably going to be taking a break from it for a while and concentrate more on my other instruments. In the event I get back to it later, perhaps it will be more satisfying. Sometimes a fresh start tends to make us forget those issues that used to dog us so much. |
|
|
|
Dave Hepworth
From:
West Yorkshire, UK
|
Posted 5 Jun 2018 2:06 am
|
|
Hi Jerry,
I think JD Call answered your question about smooth highs when he said he DI 'd his steel into a Neve desk .
These desks are totally legendary in the tone they can get from ANY source of sound.They are so good that JHS has issued a rather nice pedal called a "colourbox" .It has the same EQ circuits and Baxandale transformer as the Neve and is featured in "That Pedal Show "on U Tube.They are about $400 so not cheap but they are an amazing sound.
Don't forget also PPL were recording onto Tape which also gives a sweet sound .So a serendipitous double whammy by virtue of the best gear available at the time ( & probably still is).
Regards Dave |
|
|
|
Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
|
Posted 5 Jun 2018 4:56 am
|
|
Thanks Dave. Yes, I understand about the Neve's legend. I've heard a lot about these. I realize the studio uses higher end gear and gets a more tailored and focused sound. Just like to get closer to the sound live.
Thanks for your input and heads up on the JHS. |
|
|
|
Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
|
Posted 5 Jun 2018 2:23 pm
|
|
| Franklin wrote: |
| D'Addario cables are as close to the old cables they made back when and they do not brighten the tone like the George L's and Bill Lawrence cables will and Monster cables are too muddy |
Paul, Which D'Addario cables are you referring to? They seem to offer several kinds of instrument cables. |
|
|
|
Rich Upright
From:
Florida, USA
|
Posted 5 Jun 2018 7:10 pm
|
|
I've been chasing tone for years, and I think I finally hit on the right combination; the biggest change I've made recently is thinking that I don't necessarily hafta have a 15" speaker, but because I also play Tele on my gigs, I gotta have an amp with glowing bottles, just can't stand the sound of transistors; way too constipated. I bought a Peavey Classic 30 amp off Craigslist because it was so cheap, and sounded great for guitar. But, when I plugged my LeGrande D-10 into it onstage, OMG here was the tone I had been chasing for years, not just for guitar, but for steel too. It sounded so good, I bought a second one as backup off Craigs. So, I sold my Blues Classic, Craiglisted my '76 Twin & '64 Ampeg Gemini II, and will just use the Classic 30 for good. Lighter, and tone for days.
_________________
A couple D-10s,some vintage guitars & amps, & lotsa junk in the gig bag. |
|
|
|
Greg Lambert
From:
Illinois, USA
|
Posted 6 Jun 2018 6:02 pm
|
|
| The fret location where he is picking plays a vital part in clean highs. Also listen closely. There is a high quality compressor used on the steel with just a touch of compression and quick release. |
|
|
|
Marty Broussard
From:
Broussard, Louisiana, USA
|
Posted 7 Jun 2018 2:46 am
|
|
Jerry,
IMHO, you didn’t “show weakness.†You’re displaying a desire to have a satisfying collaboration with your instrument and refine your voice.
Moreover, your post generated a HUGE amount of useful information that I will print and file for future reference.
Thank you for your post.
Best regards,
_________________
RETIRED
"Technique is really the elimination of the unnecessary..it is a constant effort to avoid any personal impediment or obstacle to achieve the smooth flow of energy and intent" Yehudi Menuhin
Last edited by Marty Broussard on 7 Jun 2018 7:09 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
Marty Broussard
From:
Broussard, Louisiana, USA
|
Posted 7 Jun 2018 2:48 am
|
|
Jerry,
I sent you a PM.
Again, thank you for your post.
Best regards,
_________________
RETIRED
"Technique is really the elimination of the unnecessary..it is a constant effort to avoid any personal impediment or obstacle to achieve the smooth flow of energy and intent" Yehudi Menuhin |
|
|
|
Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
|
Posted 7 Jun 2018 8:32 am
|
|
| Thanks for your PM and your reply here Marty. I'm happy to hear from you on both counts. |
|
|
|
Stuart Legg
|
Posted 19 Jun 2018 3:54 pm
|
|
just a little something from a psg insignificant.
You can be insignificant and still have great tone!
Any Steel through a Peavey Tube Fex through any kind of Peavey steel guitar amp set to the best sweet spot is good enough. You got a problem with that? |
|
|
|
Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
|
Posted 19 Jun 2018 7:31 pm
|
|
Jerry, for whatever it's worth, I just listened to one of your YouTube clips. Taking into account the recording method and conditions, I don't hear anything at all wrong with your sound. I think that if you recorded direct, or with a mike right in front of your amp, you'd be more pleased with what you're hearing, and playing.
 |
|
|
|
Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
|
Posted 20 Jun 2018 12:15 pm
|
|
I appreciate the encouragement Donny. I didn't know I had anything on YT, but it's probably one from the steel club with my old friend Boogie (RIP). I haven't given anyone permission to post any of my stuff, but it's probably something that his daughter posted...so it's OK.
Anyway, I can count on one hand those steel club things I've done with satisfaction. Much more comfortable in the tonks, clubs etc. in a band situation.
I take your point though and will try to accept it for what it is, make the best of what I have to work with and try to take more pleasure in sharing whatever talent that I've been blessed with. I guess I just need to lighten up and enjoy it more. Thanks much. |
|
|
|
Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
|
Posted 20 Jun 2018 3:52 pm
|
|
Try changing the axis of your speaker in relation to your head.
If you are in line with the center of the cone, the “ice pick†or “death beam†high frequencies will dominate what’s going into your ear. Offsetting as little as 10 or 15 degrees will make a difference, especially in larger venues or outdoors. You should still aim it up toward your head so you can get a full dose of your volume, but not straight on.
If this was already mentioned, apologies. |
|
|
|
