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Topic: fender dual pro wood? |
Steven Welborn
From:
Ojai,CA USA
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Posted 11 May 2018 4:23 pm |
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I think I've seen these in dark or light. Walnut and ash?
thanks |
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Steven Welborn
From:
Ojai,CA USA
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Posted 12 May 2018 9:50 am
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| maybe I should rephrase. I've seen both dark and light wood dual 8's. Could someone kindly tell me what woods Fender used? thank you kindly |
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 12 May 2018 10:22 am
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I was gonna buy one some years ago, that was Walnut.
The one I had until recently, was the ash version. I gave it away, to Bobby Ingano, to make room in my office ! It wasn't a very good sounding instrument.... |
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Steven Welborn
From:
Ojai,CA USA
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Posted 12 May 2018 10:36 am
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| thanks Bill. How do the dual 8's differ in tone walnut vs ash? thanks again |
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Steven Welborn
From:
Ojai,CA USA
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Posted 12 May 2018 11:03 am
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| Just spoke with a guy selling a "52 dual and he's pretty sure it's mahogany. Asking $1400 in very clean cond. as it's been cased under the bed much of the time. |
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Steven Welborn
From:
Ojai,CA USA
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Posted 12 May 2018 12:42 pm
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Found an old thread on this subject. Sounds like there were walnut and Ash bodies. Walnut bodies early on gave way to more ash bodies later if I read correctly. But Ash bodies could have been stained dark so it's hard (for me)to tell what this would be.
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 12 May 2018 1:15 pm
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Not just Ash, but Swamp Ash, a very resonant wood. I used to strum my Fender custom triple on the way out of the house and that guitar rang out unplugged for at least 30 seconds.
From the Fender site:
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There are several kinds of ash trees; for this purpose, we’re talking the American ash. It’s a native North American hardwood which can be found all over the eastern half of the continent — from Nova Scotia in the north to Florida in the south, and as far west as Minnesota down to east Texas. Strong, dense, straight-grained and light in color, American ash is commonly used in everyday applications, including flooring, furniture and baseball bats. There are two types used to make guitar bodies—northern ash, and southern or “swamp†ash. The latter is more commonly used, and was chosen by Leo Fender for his first Esquire, Broadcaster and Telecaster guitars.
Found mainly in the wetter environs of the U.S. South, swamp ash is lighter than the northern variety, with large open pores. That makes it remarkably resonant and sweet sounding, with clearly chiming highs, defined midrange and strong low end. Two or three pieces are glued together to make an instrument body, although there have been single-piece bodies. The wood produces more treble and good sustain, with less warmth than other guitar woods.
Ash can be difficult to work with, though; the pores must be filled before finishes are applied, and two swamp ash guitar bodies are more likely to differ from one another tonally than two bodies made of alder, which has a tighter, more consistent grain.
All in all, swamp ash imparts articulation and presence with a great balance between brightness and warmth, and it looks great. So you can see — and hear — why many ash-body Fender guitars of the ’50s are so highly prized.
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_________________
Steel Guitar Books! Website: www.volkmediabooks.com |
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Steven Welborn
From:
Ojai,CA USA
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Posted 12 May 2018 1:25 pm
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| thanks for that Andy. Re the pics above, that does not look like walnut to me. It'd hard to tell through the finish checking, but the grain looks to be fairly straight as you'd expect from mahogany. Or could be stained ash(swamp). |
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Brad Davis
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 12 May 2018 3:42 pm
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I think what you see is fine checking and there is possibly the usual large grain pattern of ash underneath.
The woods were usually walnut or swamp ash, but the finish could be either "walnut" or blonde on either type of wood with varying degrees of grain showing through. |
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Rick Abbott
From:
Indiana, USA
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Posted 12 May 2018 5:07 pm
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I used to grade hardwood lumber. The grain does look like mahogany on some level, but very old growth Walnut can be super dense and strait grained. It's not ash, I graded a half-million board feet of ash, literally. Mahogany wasn't a "Fender" thing. It just about has to be really nice Walnut.
_________________
RICK ABBOTT
Sho~Bud D-10 Professional #7962
Remington T-8, Wakarusa 5e3 clone
1953 Stromberg-Carlson AU-35 |
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Steven Welborn
From:
Ojai,CA USA
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Posted 12 May 2018 5:38 pm
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| Interesting. I'll be taking a look up close and play tomorrow. Thanks for that. |
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Jim Newberry
From:
Seattle, Upper Left America
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Posted 12 May 2018 7:50 pm
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I’ve got one of each. My 1950 D8 is ash and my 195? D6 (refinished) is walnut. I don’t have any clear feeling that one sounds or sustains significantly different from the other. I like both of them. The 1950 has got Tadeo Gomez's initials and all slot head screws, for you who find such minutiae interesting!
_________________
"The Masher of Touch and Tone"
-1950 Fender Dual Pro 8
-1950's Fender Dual Pro 6
-Clinesmith D8
-Clinesmith 8-string Frypan
-Clinesmith Joaquin
-~1940 National New Yorker
-~1936 Rickenbacher B6
-Homebuilt Amps |
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Jim Dickinson
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 12 May 2018 9:36 pm
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| My1946 boxcar pickup model looks like ash to me. |
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Steven Welborn
From:
Ojai,CA USA
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Posted 16 May 2018 6:24 pm
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just a few more dumb questions...
These old trapezoid pickups ever weaken over time and require remagnetizing?
This one in question dose not say 'pro' or 'professional', just the Fender metal plate on top and fender decal on front. Is it still a dual pro or professional? thanks |
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Brad Davis
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 16 May 2018 6:31 pm
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They didn't have model names on them, its a Dual Pro (Professional).
It looks well cared for, the pickups (and magnets) are probably fine. If there is a noticeable difference or issue in output there is sometimes an issue with the old trapezoid bobbins warping or shrinking. There are people who can rebuild or re-wind them when necessary. |
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Steven Welborn
From:
Ojai,CA USA
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Posted 16 May 2018 6:52 pm
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| cool thanks Brad |
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Mark Roeder
From:
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
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Andy Henriksen
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 17 May 2018 10:44 am
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| Andy Volk wrote: |
Not just Ash, but Swamp Ash, a very resonant wood. I used to strum my Fender custom triple on the way out of the house and that guitar rang out unplugged for at least 30 seconds.
From the Fender site:
| Quote: |
There are several kinds of ash trees; for this purpose, we’re talking the American ash. It’s a native North American hardwood which can be found all over the eastern half of the continent — from Nova Scotia in the north to Florida in the south, and as far west as Minnesota down to east Texas. Strong, dense, straight-grained and light in color, American ash is commonly used in everyday applications, including flooring, furniture and baseball bats. There are two types used to make guitar bodies—northern ash, and southern or “swamp†ash. The latter is more commonly used, and was chosen by Leo Fender for his first Esquire, Broadcaster and Telecaster guitars.
Found mainly in the wetter environs of the U.S. South, swamp ash is lighter than the northern variety, with large open pores. That makes it remarkably resonant and sweet sounding, with clearly chiming highs, defined midrange and strong low end. Two or three pieces are glued together to make an instrument body, although there have been single-piece bodies. The wood produces more treble and good sustain, with less warmth than other guitar woods.
Ash can be difficult to work with, though; the pores must be filled before finishes are applied, and two swamp ash guitar bodies are more likely to differ from one another tonally than two bodies made of alder, which has a tighter, more consistent grain.
All in all, swamp ash imparts articulation and presence with a great balance between brightness and warmth, and it looks great. So you can see — and hear — why many ash-body Fender guitars of the ’50s are so highly prized.
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As a forester, this sort of thing drives me a bit bonkers. "Swamp ash" is a fairly meaningless term, as is "American Ash." There are a dozen or more Fraxinus (ash) species in the US, several of which grow in swamps, in the north and in the south (or both), and each of which has it's own range of physical (and presumably sonic) characteristics. It's purely a marketing term.
However, this would explain this part of the quote above:
"two swamp ash guitar bodies are more likely to differ from one another tonally than two bodies made of alder" |
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Steven Welborn
From:
Ojai,CA USA
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Steven Welborn
From:
Ojai,CA USA
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Posted 17 May 2018 3:30 pm
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I thought replacing the ancient strings that were on it with new would solve some issues of concern initially, put a new set of E13s' on the front neck, there still was a dull, uneven out of focus thing going on, plus rattle coming from the pickup when some strings plucked. Removed PU assembly/plate (six screws) expecting to find a loose nut maybe, but they seemed tight. I removed them anyway and re-tightened with new lock washers, blew out any grit there may have been btween the mount plate and pickup (could only separate about 1/8" due to wires) wiped clean mating surfaces of mounting plate and body, re-tightened screws, but I didn't really expect to solve much since I didn't notice loose nuts or anything. But what d'y know,
sound is now focused and clean. Just thought I'd share that in case anyone had similar issues. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 17 May 2018 4:13 pm
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Congrats on your DP Steven. Lots of good music to be made there.
Well, I thought I knew what this one is. We're the current custodian of this '52 Dual Pro. I first thought it was ash but with this nice aged patina, then someone told me it was walnut. The wood doesn't look like walnut to me and so I'm sticking with ash. I don't really know. All I know is these traps sound incredible. It's a total joy to play. I have my pedal steel up for sale and I'd be completely happy having to play this one the rest of my life.
I took a photo of the tuner pan pocket some time ago to i.d. the mfg. date, but it's so lousy and fuzzy I can't tell what the wood is. But, I do not recall seeing any big difference in the patina when I removed the pan.
Then I took off the neck selector plate and I still can't tell. At first, I thought it was the natural ash, but again it looks like it may have some paint or finish over it?
Here's a shot showing the grain:
I'll have a closer look when I'm at the guitar's location.
Pretty amazing how just a few years ago, you could buy one of these for cheap and now they really command a pretty good price. I guess people really like and desire that sound. It's one that's hard to get with any other instrument. |
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Steven Welborn
From:
Ojai,CA USA
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Posted 17 May 2018 8:52 pm
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| Thanks Jerry. Your blondie looks like ash to me only because I don't recall ever sing walnut that light a color. Rick Abbott would be probably be the expert to know for sure. |
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 18 May 2018 5:09 pm
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The last lap steel I built, a few years ago, was of ash, ( just ash !) It had a "Fendery treble sound to it. I fixed that problem though, I gave it away  |
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Chance Wilson
From:
California, USA
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Posted 22 May 2018 5:45 pm
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| The earlier "walnut" steels were mahogany. Bigsby was the walnut guy. Fender liked mahogany but ash & maple were more cost effective & he could get the popular mid century bleached oak furniture style finish over ash. There are train cars full of ash that still come to LA regularly. Real swamp ash-the light stuff comes from the part of the tree closest to the water. Most of a swamp ash tree is baseball bat material. I've cherry picked through the rail cars myself and when they're 8/4x12"+x16', one can get a good workout flipping boards. I imagine the light stuff was reserved for Champions (easy to hide flaws) until guys like James Burton started asking for it specifically. One of these days I'll dig out my pics of Fender steels with different woods. I remember one late 50s stringmaster that was alder. |
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