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Topic: Tube or solid |
Bobby Nelson
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 21 May 2018 3:43 pm |
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| I have always been an old, hand wired tube amp guy. Solid states just have this, for lack of a better description, artificial thing in the tone for me. I have a Nashville 400, and a 73 Twin w/K-120s, and the comparison is hands down for the twin, in terms of pretty tone to me. I'm new to steel so, I have no frame of reference with it yet. And, I know you can get more power out of the SS which means something with steel. I also wonder, do I sacrifice out front tone for what I want to hear on stage. But, the weaker twin just sounds so much better to me. Just wondering what all you steel players think of this in terms of amplifiers. |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 21 May 2018 3:59 pm
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I'd pick the twin with jbl's every time over the Peavey. If a twin with jlb's isn't loud enough, you are doing serious damage to your hearing.
_________________
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. |
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Steve Sycamore
From:
Sweden
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Posted 21 May 2018 11:46 pm
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| I don't think you can really compare the BW speaker with a JBL. If your NV400 has the updated/modified circuit and you put a JBL in it while putting some other speaker into the Twin (but not the classic Jensen), I'd bet you would have a very different opinion. |
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Bobby Nelson
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 22 May 2018 12:04 am
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That's kinda where I've fallen Paul. The NV sounds great - until I plug the Twin up and then it's over.
Steve, I have the Fox mod in the NV but, it has the original BW speaker. |
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Dan Kelly
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 22 May 2018 7:29 am
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I have had a number of the popular amps for PSG. As of now my humble opinion is that a good tube amp can produce wonderful harmonics / overtones that a SS amp just misses.
My favorite amp is a THD Bivalve Class A cathode biasing 30 watt tube amp. After "rolling" a few NOS tube selections, this amp captures the tone, harmonics, overtone that is really appealing, at least to me.
It is true that the subtleties of this tube amp tone may be lost on a live performance gig. A Quilter Combo is my favorite amp for gigging. But in a quiet controlled recording or practice room environment, a good tube amp is the way to go. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 22 May 2018 8:22 am
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Very, very broad question. But if your scope is really just "Twin Reverb vs. modern Peavey pedal steel amps for a clean pedal steel sound", then it depends on what I'm going for.
I've always been a guitar player, and always preferred tube amps, especially for guitar. My main rig right now is a blackface '66 Twin Reverb. It's just gorgeous for pedal steel and plays nicely with 6-string too. But for pedal steel only situations, a Session/LTD or NV 400 is a very good rig. I prefer the Session/LTD 400 by a considerable margin, but the NV 400 is still a solid amp. And I think there are advantages to the additional headroom provided by a high-power, high-headroom pedal steel amp, at least for pedal steel.
Not long before he passed, Chris Ivey stated something like the following (I'm paraphrasing from memory) - if you plug a good pedal steel into a properly working amp like a Peavey (X)400 and can't get a good sound, the problem is not with the equipment. I agree.
I had this "proven" to me while doing Mike Sweeney's boot camp several years back. Same guitar (we tried it with his Zum and my Franklin) into my rig and Mike's Session 400 with just a delay pedal. Round robin, I play, then Mike plays. Badda bing, badda boom - you can hear the difference immediately! If you're around a really good player, I suggest you try this experiment. For me, at least, sometimes I have to really hear what's going on first-hand to really internalize it.
Last edited by Dave Mudgett on 22 May 2018 8:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 22 May 2018 8:33 am
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| Steve Sycamore wrote: |
| I don't think you can really compare the BW speaker with a JBL. |
Agreed. My old LTD 400 sounded adequate with its factory JBL. After it blew, I installed a used BW pulled from a NV 400, and the amp sounded way mo' bettah to my old ears.
My opinion on the eternal "tube vs solid-state" discussion is that it shouldn't be an "either/or." Both have their merits, depending on the situation. There just is not a "one-size-fits-all" amplifier, in my opinion. That's why I have accumulated multiple amps. I like 'em all, but they were selected to fit different playing situations. |
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Bobby Nelson
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 22 May 2018 3:59 pm
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Well, I am absolutely going to have to get better to tell the difference with the steel guitar - no argument there. I must admit that on that one gig I did w/the Twin, it did sound a little thin. But, I'm sure my lack of experience with steel was at the root of that.
It has been my experience with guitar that solid states just don't cut through like tubes do. However, I never used a 200 watt amp either.
I'm giving myself 10 yrs to learn the pedal steel - that's when I'll be retiring and that's what I plan to do in retirement. So, I clearly have a lot to learn about this instrument which is alien to me haha. |
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James Quackenbush
From:
Pomona, New York, USA
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Posted 22 May 2018 7:37 pm
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| I find that there’s good and bad in both tube and in the solid-state amplifiers ..... If using a high-end amplifier is what we’re talking about here I would tend to go with the tube amplifier over a solid-state .... I’ve owned quite a few of both solid state and tube amps... |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 23 May 2018 8:30 am
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I have both solid state and tube amps but I guess I'm a sucker for the old Fender tube amps.
Right now I'm playing through a Fender Vibrosonic amp.
Erv |
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Tom Cooper
From:
Orlando, Fl
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Posted 26 May 2018 12:34 pm Tubes
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| I use both, plus hybrid set up. Tube pre, SS, all tube, all solid state. Use them all depending on gig, situation, |
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Eric Philippsen
From:
Central Florida USA
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Posted 26 May 2018 7:29 pm
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I use all different kinds of setups. I might gig for several months with a NV400. Then, on a whim, I might grab the Sarno V8 and a Furlong powered cab. Six months or so with that setup. Then a Twin. They all sound great to me.
A lot of amps just don't cut it with steel. True, as Dave points out, a pro can make just about anything sound good but I'm not at that level. |
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Steven Paris
From:
Los Angeles
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Posted 27 May 2018 6:16 am Re: Tube or solid
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| Bobby Nelson wrote: |
| I have a Nashville 400, and a 73 Twin w/K-120s, and the comparison is hands down for the twin, in terms of pretty tone to me. ..... the weaker twin just sounds so much better to me. |
Not really a fair comparison to those on a limited budget----a used NV400 is ~ $350; a Twin w/ JBLs is ~ $1200. So.....
_________________
Emmons & Peavey |
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Dan Beller-McKenna
From:
Durham, New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 27 May 2018 1:26 pm
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I stopped using my '71 Twin a few years ago for various reasons. I settled in on an LTD 400 which I love. Last Thursday I brought the Twin out for an outdoor gig and was reminded how it produces the sound I really want to get out of my steel. Still love the LTD, just like the Twin even better.
Both have Weber 15"s (California in the LTD; Michigan in the Twin). That cuts the weight down a from JBLs or BWs. End result is that the LTD weighs about 10 lbs less. Sometimes that's just enough to tip the scales (pun intended).
I agree that a good player should be able to get a good sound out of any reasonable amp. For me, the "good sound" I'm after is the sound of the Twin. I will use solid state amps that can approximate it. |
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Bobby Nelson
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 28 May 2018 8:10 am
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That's a good point Steve. However, the NV 400 @ $350.00 seemed to work pretty well for Buddy Emmons and a lot of others. I wonder what the difference in a NV and a Walker Stereo Steel, or a telonics is. I'd be scared to put that much $$ into a solid state when I could almost have 2 BF twins for the same $$ - and, I know my love of old tube amps.
I guess I'm with you Dan, I'm looking at a '73 (same year as my Twin) Vibrosonic Reverb, kind of as a perfect mate to the Twin. The weight is another issue: @ 56 yrs old, I have a very hard time lifting the Twin into the back of my Tahoe. I can get it within 3 or 4 inches of it being in there, and then, I almost need help haha. |
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James Quackenbush
From:
Pomona, New York, USA
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Posted 28 May 2018 8:26 am
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| You guys need to invest in a good cart to move your gear around.......Make a head and separate speaker cabs out of the twin !!....Make things easy on yourself.....If I go to see my friends play at a club,I’m either helping to bring gear in or bring gear out.....They do the same for me when I’m playing......Remember....This is supposed to be fun !!....Jim |
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Bobby Nelson
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 28 May 2018 8:39 am
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| Yeah James, I'm planning on having the cabs split. The one gig I did with the console steel, I had my Godson there when I loaded in, so that was cake. At the end though, it was 1:30 in the morning, he was gone, and the other guys were busy getting drunk. I had to be at work at 7AM so I had to leave. Some girls were sitting there watching me struggle with the Twin, and asked if I needed help. My pride was a little bigger than my abilities, but I struggled on haha. |
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James Quackenbush
From:
Pomona, New York, USA
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Posted 28 May 2018 9:17 am
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Bobby,
You had GIRLS (plural !!!! ) offering to help you out, and you turned them down at 1:30 in the morning ??
“ one of these days I’m going to have to have a long talk with that boy†“Jed Clampet “
LOL !!!!!......Just kidding Bobby !!!😂😂😂😂......Jim |
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Bobby Nelson
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 28 May 2018 3:18 pm
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 I'm with ya James haha! In my single days, it may have been different. They were sitting on a bench singing It's So easy haha! |
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Greg Milton
From:
Benalla, Australia
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Posted 28 May 2018 6:47 pm
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| Bobby Nelson wrote: |
| Some girls were sitting there watching me struggle with the Twin, and asked if I needed help. My pride was a little bigger than my abilities, but I struggled on haha. |
Heavy amp as a new way to meet girls? Me and my 95lb Super Twin should do well then. I look forward to an offer of assistance in the near future! |
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James Quackenbush
From:
Pomona, New York, USA
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Posted 29 May 2018 12:49 am
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My mom used to say “there isn’t some bad where some good can’t come out of it “.....
Funny how I listen more now to what she had to say now that she’s gone...... Jim |
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Tim Herman
From:
Alberta, Canada
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Posted 29 May 2018 4:14 am
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| Might be that the best amp is whatever makes you comfortable. If you are not happy with your tone, you will be too tight to play well. Also a very big difference between playing a restaurant to playing a big stage. I have a Session 500, Nashville 112. Fender Bandmaster clone, and a bunch of Roland Cubes. Have used them all, depending on the situation. |
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Steven Paris
From:
Los Angeles
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Posted 29 May 2018 6:26 am
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| Tim Herman wrote: |
| Might be that the best amp is whatever makes you comfortable. If you are not happy with your tone, you will be too tight to play well. Also a very big difference between playing a restaurant to playing a big stage. I have a Session 500, Nashville 112. Fender Bandmaster clone, and a bunch of Roland Cubes. Have used them all, depending on the situation. |
Which of the Roland Cubes do you have? And which one sounds the best?
_________________
Emmons & Peavey |
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Tim Herman
From:
Alberta, Canada
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Posted 29 May 2018 7:41 am
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I have 2 Roland Cube 60's. 2 Cube 40 GX. 1 Cube 40xl.
I have a teaching studio where I do group lessons, and these little amps are mighty for the price.
Some improv ideas over a IIm7, V7, Imaj7 in C. Warts and all. First take has a quiet backing track, so I did another with track a little louder for reference.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLIXuD8_LHc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnF3uooC89w
Both tracks recorded with IRig recorder from the line out of a Roland Cube 40XL. |
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