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Topic: Help pricing some lap steels? |
Dan Campbell
From: Florida, USA
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Posted 9 Apr 2018 5:57 pm
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I'm selling 6 lap steels for a friend of mine and need assistance pricing these guitars for sale on the forum. From my research they seems to be worth between $150 to $450 but that is a big difference. Maybe one or two of them is worth more than that. Any suggestions or information you can give me on them from the pics will be helpful. I can send more pics if necessary. Thanks Dan
Last edited by Dan Campbell on 24 Apr 2018 3:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Steve Wilson
From: Morgan Hill, California, USA
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Posted 10 Apr 2018 6:01 pm
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I am not much help on pricing, but I can tell you I have an Kay made Oahu Tonemaster like the next to last one. It is a very nice sounding guitar. Long 25" scale. The last one is made by Magnatone, and are typically nice sounding instruments. What brand is the blue one with the humbucker? Never seen one like that. Funny it has red marks on the 12th and 23rd fret. |
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Lee Baucum
From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 10 Apr 2018 7:23 pm
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Steve Wilson wrote: |
What brand is the blue one with the humbucker? Never seen one like that. Funny it has red marks on the 12th and 23rd fret. |
Looks like maybe someone messed up and put the double dots on the 25th fret.
The red line is on the 24th fret. _________________ Lee, from South Texas - Down On The Rio Grande
There are only two options as I see it.
Either I'm right, or there is a sinister conspiracy to conceal the fact that I'm right.
Williams Keyless S-10, BMI S-10, Evans FET-500LV, Fender Steel King, 2 Roland Cube 80XL's,
Sarno FreeLoader, Goodrich Passive Volume Pedals, Vintage ACE Pack-A-Seat |
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Steve Wilson
From: Morgan Hill, California, USA
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Posted 10 Apr 2018 8:08 pm
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Good eye, Lee. I confess I didn't count the frets, just looked at the double markers. |
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Mark Helm
From: Tennessee, USA
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Posted 12 Apr 2018 1:44 pm All in the $100-$300
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Steve's right. Most are in the $100-$300 range, although you may get a bit more for the Oahu Tonemaster with the wooden pickup cover. Nothing especially rare or expensive. I'd try my luck on eBay. _________________ Remington Steelmaster S8 w/ custom Steeltronics pickup. Vox MV-50 amplifier + an 1940's Oahu cab w/ 8" American Vintage speaker. J. Mascis Fender Squire Jazzmaster, Hofner Club bass, Ibanez AVN4-VMS Artwood Vintage Series Concert Size Acoustic Guitar. 1920s/30s Supertone Hawaiian-themed parlor guitar. Silvertone parlor guitar. |
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Dan Campbell
From: Florida, USA
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Posted 12 Apr 2018 6:39 pm Help pricing
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Thanks for taking the time to give me some feedback. Dan |
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werner althaus
From: lincoln, NE
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Posted 12 Apr 2018 8:05 pm
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I'd be curious about the pickup in that blue Gibson. |
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Jack Hanson
From: San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 13 Apr 2018 3:01 am
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werner althaus wrote: |
I'd be curious about the pickup in that blue Gibson. |
Likely a generic humbucker with 52mm string spacing built for standard guitar (as opposed to 58mm for a lap steel P-90), hence the aftermarket bridge to match up with its polepieces. |
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werner althaus
From: lincoln, NE
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Posted 13 Apr 2018 5:19 am
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That blue Gibson (BR3 ???) looks old enough (40's or 50's) to have been refinished and it's PU changed a long time ago, hence the possibility of that "generic humbucker" being something valuable. Remember, the standard guitar spaced humbucker on an Ultratone happens to be a PAF, by far the most valuable pickup there is, maybe there's a cool old PAT number or T-Top in there. It couldn't hurt to check it out prior to letting her go for a song. |
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Jack Hanson
From: San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 13 Apr 2018 6:50 am
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werner althaus wrote: |
That blue Gibson (BR3 ???) looks old enough (40's or 50's) to have been refinished and it's PU changed a long time ago, hence the possibility of that "generic humbucker" being something valuable. Remember, the standard guitar spaced humbucker on an Ultratone happens to be a PAF, by far the most valuable pickup there is, maybe there's a cool old PAT number or T-Top in there. It couldn't hurt to check it out prior to letting her go for a song. |
The possibility that there's a PAF sitting in there is one I had not considered, and would definitely be worth exploring. Considering the placement of the controls, and the shape of the replacement mounting plate, I would guess it was once a second generation BR-6.
If you can deal with the narrower string spacing and the garish paint job, no doubt it's a solid little 6-string. |
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Jack Hanson
From: San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 13 Apr 2018 7:04 am
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Can anyone identify the sunburst instrument pictured between the blue Gibson and the Tonemaster? I have one that's nearly identical, except it's finished in white with silver spackling. There was once an oval decal on the headstock, but all that's left is a silhouette.
Kay, perhaps? Jackson Guldan? |
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werner althaus
From: lincoln, NE
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Posted 13 Apr 2018 8:47 am
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Jack Hanson wrote: |
The possibility that there's a PAF sitting in there is one I had not considered, and would definitely be worth exploring. Considering the placement of the controls, and the shape of the replacement mounting plate, I would guess it was once a second generation BR-6.
If you can deal with the narrower string spacing and the garish paint job, no doubt it's a solid little 6-string. |
I don't think it'd be a PAF, I find it unlikely that whoever reworked the guitar would have scored a valuable pickup like that even 40 years ago. But early pat # or T-Tops weren't considered anything special until much more recently. Again, I'd look under the hood before letting that one go, the PU might be worth more than that heavily modified Gibson would sell for. |
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Jim Sliff
From: Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 14 Apr 2018 10:38 am
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What werner said about the Gibson.
you can possibly find similar "sold" prices on eBay by just doing a few searches; the Vintage Price Guide is also useful.
But Oahu's, Magnatones, Ehiphones and other common vintage steels usually fall in the $200 area IF you get lucky.
I'd sell them here. There is such a glut of lap steels on the market that anything except higher-end models tend to sell awfully cheap on Reverb and eBay. _________________ No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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David Mason
From: Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 20 Apr 2018 1:48 pm
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But... but... is someone HERE actually advocating murdering a vital piece of history in order to remove, and sell, a PAF pickup, prematurely (a mere 60 years!) separating it from it's mother? Just to MAKE MONEY?!? No wonder they call it filthy lucre.
Heavens to Betsy, if this was a workable strategy (like the right P.A.F.) if you actually went and did that, you would be castigated, shamed, ostracized into a little puddle of quivering goo. The idea is to just historically-researchedly find out if that really IS a $7,000 pickup on a $150 beaterphonic, so you can then proudly hang it on the wall, secure and virtuous in the knowledge that you're preserving & honoring a critically important piece of history to be... umm... hung on a wall, in case somebody sometime needs to... umm... know these things. There's a lotta barbarians out there, and not nearly enough steel guitars hanging on walls. |
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Jim Sliff
From: Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 22 Apr 2018 11:59 am
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My second pass looking at 'em - being able to see the logos on the ones that have them is very important.
Closeups of the pickup areas on the teal and white-knob ones would also be helpful - pickups look odd on both.
none but the Gibson look like >$200 guitars to me.
David - I'm a "vintage cop" that does not condone parting out guitars to make more money that I would selling an original, and I believe in NOT taking vintage pieces out of circulation permanently.
But....
There are a FEW exceptions, and Gibson lap steels with PAF's are one. The steels are not particularly good when the pickup is taken out of the equation, as opposed to a same-year Les Paul with a PAF missing.
I've talked to quite a few major vintage dealers and brokers about this, and the unanimous feeling its that in that unique case it would be acceptable to replace the original pickup with a "PAF" clone - but only to restore a specific Gibson electric (Les Paul, ES-335, ES-175, ES-1275 or other missing one original, same-year PAF).
And FWIW original PAF's are roughly $1,500-2500 pickups *normally* depending on condition - but they make oddly varied differences in guitar value based on the model (and somebody with a *really* flamey '59 'burst missing one original pickup would probably may exponentially more for a same-year PAF!) _________________ No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Dan Campbell
From: Florida, USA
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Posted 24 Apr 2018 3:46 pm Close ups of Gibson pickups
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Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread. I have now downloaded closeups of the pickups and pots on the Gibson. What do you think? |
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G Strout
From: Carabelle, Florida
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Posted 24 Apr 2018 3:57 pm
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The Gibson HB-R (neck position) and the HB-L (bridge position) "The Original" Circuit-Board Humbuckers were the result of an exceptional collaboration between Bill Lawrence and Gibson when he re-joined the Gibson team in the late eighties. The HB-R & HB-L pickups are thought by many to combine the low-end aggressiveness of a Bill Lawrence 500-L with the precision of a Gibson Classic '57 Humbucker _________________ Melbert 8, Remington S8, Silk 6 string, Rick B6, Tremblay 6 lap steel, Marlen S-10 4&4, Prestige Guild M75 and Artist Award, Benedetto Bravo, Epiphone Century Electar (the real one) and a bunch of old lap steels.... mostly Ricks and Magnatones' |
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Dan Campbell
From: Florida, USA
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Posted 25 Apr 2018 5:38 am Pickup
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Thanks for the pickup info. Does this date rhe guitar to the 80’s or do you think it was an add on? |
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G Strout
From: Carabelle, Florida
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Posted 25 Apr 2018 5:55 am
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Dan, I would say that it is an "add on." Bill Lawrence Circuit Board pickups were found in Gibson guitars from late 1988 - early 1990. They came standard in ES-335s, SGs, Les Paul Customs and Les Paul Standards. I doubt that Gibson was involved in making lap steels in the late 80's early 90"s.
Gary _________________ Melbert 8, Remington S8, Silk 6 string, Rick B6, Tremblay 6 lap steel, Marlen S-10 4&4, Prestige Guild M75 and Artist Award, Benedetto Bravo, Epiphone Century Electar (the real one) and a bunch of old lap steels.... mostly Ricks and Magnatones' |
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Jack Hanson
From: San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 25 Apr 2018 7:29 am Re: Pickup
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Dan Campbell wrote: |
Thanks for the pickup info. Does this date rhe guitar to the 80’s or do you think it was an add on? |
The second version of the BR-6 was built from about 1947 to 1951 with the wide-oval (racetrack) pickup. From 1951 until the end of production (1959), they were fitted with a P-90.
The only production Gibson 6-string lap steels that had a factory-installed humbucker were the aforementioned Ultratone from 1957 to 1959, and the final version of the Century, built from 1966 to 1967. The Century sported a "Firebird" style pickup, not the PAF-style, however.
The pickup on your blue Gibson is most likely an add-on. So is the bridge. An original BR-6 bridge had wider string spacing (to match its wide-oval or P-90 pickup). The strings would not line up with the polepieces on a humbucker, hence the bridge replacement.
The customization appears to be nicely done. It'd be a nice guitar for someone who is accustomed to narrower string spacing (like on many Fenders and the modern Asian imports). Or someone who requires an instrument when or where 60-cycle hum from fluorescent lighting, neon lighting, dimmers, etc. interferes with single coil pickups. |
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werner althaus
From: lincoln, NE
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Posted 25 Apr 2018 7:44 pm
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That Bill Lawrence designed PU is not what I was expecting to see but hey, it never hurts to look. I wonder if the blue paint job was done at the same time, late 80's onward. |
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Dan Campbell
From: Florida, USA
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Posted 26 Apr 2018 2:55 am Paint job
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The paint job I think is earlier. I say that because it was very well done. The control plate - the painting around the control plate- and the fret board, however, are hideous and amateurish. I think they were done at the same time the pickup went in. The wiring also became disconnected almost as soon as it was touched. It’s my feeling that these “modifications ought to be re-worked. The whole guitar may need to be re-painted to accomplish that. What do you guys think? Dan |
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werner althaus
From: lincoln, NE
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Posted 26 Apr 2018 5:58 am Re: Paint job
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Dan Campbell wrote: |
The paint job I think is earlier. I say that because it was very well done. The control plate - the painting around the control plate- and the fret board, however, are hideous and amateurish. I think they were done at the same time the pickup went in. The wiring also became disconnected almost as soon as it was touched. It’s my feeling that these “modifications ought to be re-worked. The whole guitar may need to be re-painted to accomplish that. What do you guys think? Dan |
Agreed, the paint job made me think 60's or 70s and if ALL the modifications were done at that time the likelihood of a valuable humbucker having been installed increases IMO. |
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