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Topic: One more time Noah....or you Oahu gurus |
Mark Santi
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 24 Apr 2018 1:52 pm |
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....ever seen one like this ?
must be a failed MOTS model
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Steve Wilson
From:
Morgan Hill, California, USA
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Posted 24 Apr 2018 2:23 pm
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| Definitely a Dickerson/Magnatone made instrument. I have seen that color before, but not often. They also had one with only one knob attached to the pickup cover. The two knob was a deluxe model. Bet it sounds sweet. |
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G Strout
From:
Carabelle, Florida
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Posted 24 Apr 2018 3:43 pm
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I'm with Steve. Dickerson.... it has the older "tulip" head stock... mine was Green MOTS with the tulip stock. Dated to late 30's early 40's.
_________________
Melbert 8, Remington S8, Silk 6 string, Rick B6, Tremblay 6 lap steel, Marlen S-10 4&4, Prestige Guild M75 and Artist Award, Benedetto Bravo, Epiphone Century Electar (the real one) and a bunch of old lap steels.... mostly Ricks and Magnatones' |
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Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
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Posted 24 Apr 2018 5:07 pm
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Model 386K Troubadour, introduced 1940.
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Steve Wilson
From:
Morgan Hill, California, USA
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Posted 24 Apr 2018 9:45 pm
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Is that your guitar, Mark? It sure is a beauty, or should I say a peach  |
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Bill Sinclair
From:
Waynesboro, PA, USA
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Posted 25 Apr 2018 10:18 am Hey! I've got one too!
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Mine's yellow though. It's labeled Dickerson on the headstock so I guess Valco labeled them as both Dickerson and Oahu guitars. 22.5" scale and with the string-through body and the bridge right against the edge, it's physically very small and great for overhead compartments when flying. I got mine real cheap because a previous owner had hacked through the MOTS to get to the pickup but was not able to repair it. I made a tear shaped pickguard to cover the cut up part and stuck a cheap pickup in there just to get it going until I replace it with a better one. Oh, and I ground down a $5 Gretsch bridge to replace the missing one.
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Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
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Posted 25 Apr 2018 11:01 am Re: Hey! I've got one too!
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| Bill Sinclair wrote: |
| Mine's yellow though. It's labeled Dickerson on the headstock so I guess Valco labeled them as both Dickerson and Oahu guitars. |
Dickerson was a competitor to Valco, not one of its brands. They had their own factory and built steels and amps for a variety of brands; in 1946 its name was changed to the Magna Electronics Company, and the in-house brand was changed to Magnatone. |
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John Dahms
From:
Perkasie, Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 25 Apr 2018 5:48 pm
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My 2 cents on this subject is that these were Dickerson made and sold under Oahu, Bronson and other brand labels. The single vs 2 knob change (in my opinion) happened on the same model shortly before WW2 put an end to production so there are fewer of them out there. There were MOTS dark green ones (the most common), yellow, peach and red that I have seen.
After the war the basic body shape was retained but the headstock shape was changed and body contours were refined.Dickerson became Magnatone and they provided steels for quite a number of brands.
At the end of the model's run in about 1954ish some of the last ones were made with a standard finish instead of "mother of toilet seat."
One of the first and last -
_________________
Time flies like an eagle
Fruit flies like a banana. |
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Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
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Posted 26 Apr 2018 3:31 am
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| Dickerson sold steels with and without a second (tone) knob in the late '30s, and Magnatone continued to build a few single-knob steels into the '50s. |
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John Dahms
From:
Perkasie, Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 26 Apr 2018 5:05 am
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Noah (and others),
Let's keep this up a little and maybe we can define the models better than we have been able to so far.
To my knowledge the later Magnatone single control (volume only) steels had a different body shape from the 2 knob models. I have not seen one with the 2 knob body and only 1 knob.
The early Dickerson (pre-Magnatone ca.'37-39) had 1 knob and the "tulip" headstock. Then the tone knob was added at some point (your 1940 catalog picture is the earliest I have seen).
There may be other evidence that shows otherwise but this is what I have pieced together so far.
Model names or numbers?
_________________
Time flies like an eagle
Fruit flies like a banana. |
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Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
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Posted 26 Apr 2018 6:21 am
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This is based on two Dickerson brochures, supposedly from 1939. The steels and amps were sold mainly as sets, without separate model numbers, so these are really named after the amps:
- Deluxe Professional 12: volume and tone, some kind of dark MOTS (the picture is black & white and the color is not described).
- S8, S6: volume only, silver-grey or maroon MOTS.
- SP8 and SD6: volume only, in some kind of dark MOTS.
All of these are pictured with the following body and headstock shape:
All of these are shown with one knob anchored through the hand rest and the other (if present) with a separate metal surround. However, I've seen plenty where the knobs were not surrounded by metal at all, and plenty with different headstock shapes and ornamentation. I don't know whether they changed the model names over time; my guess is that they didn't, but just simplified the designs to require less time to produce. As always with old instrument catalogs, the appearance might have changed ten times before the catalog was updated.
From the 1940 Oahu catalog (excluding Kay-built models):
- 250K, 308K, 345K, and 369K steel/amp sets: the same steel as above with no tone control, grey finish, just different amps. Steels do not have a separate model number.
Then, there are two more expensive models that get a bit confusing; they're both listed as the 386K Troubadour, but they're clearly different instruments. One has the headstock and covering of Mark's guitar (above) but the smaller body I posted in this post. The other has the larger body of Mark's guitar, and the same covering, but a more squared-off headstock. I think Oahu fumbled either the description or the photos. Either way, neither of them have exactly the combination of features in Mark's guitar. This confusion is cleared up in the 1941 Oahu catalog, which only has one picture (small body, older headstock). The 250K and 345K are the same as the year before, but the rest are gone.
Thoroughly confused yet?  |
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Frank James Pracher
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 26 Apr 2018 6:34 am
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Then there's this... wood finish single knob. (Sorry for the sideways pic)
John, where did you get your information on the wood Maggie's being at the end of the run? I'm a Magnatone nut and always looking for more information on them.
_________________
"Don't be mad honey, but I bought another one" |
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John Dahms
From:
Perkasie, Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 28 Apr 2018 5:11 pm
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Frank,
As best as I can recall (it has been a while since I have seen one) the way I pieced together dating the non- MOTS, natural finished ones was from the features and specs and pot codes. Serial numbers on Magnatone family steels are all over the place so they are of little help. I expect that different brands were sequencially numbered within groups but in general I have seen lower numbers on units that were definitely newer than others with higher numbers.
Each one of the several natural finish steels I have seen has had the same late features (bridge and nut, knobs, jack cup, etc. and pot codes from ca. 1954 or late '53. The only one I still have may not have the original pots in it but it has what I believe to be the original capacitor with a 46st week of '54 date code on it.
Since in all the years I have been around them I have not seen an original factory natural finish on an earlier model it seems to me at least that when the model was being discontinued that would have been the time to use up existing stock and applying a clear finish would be a fast fix to get them out the door for the least cost. This guitar has a serial of 18451 and taking into consideration the anomalies surrounding serial number schemes, I have seen units with similar features and MOTS finishes in the 14xxx to 16xxx range and '53-54 pot codes.
It may be guessing but it is an educated guess and I think a fair one.
Opinions and facts welcomed.
_________________
Time flies like an eagle
Fruit flies like a banana. |
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Frank James Pracher
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 28 Apr 2018 7:49 pm
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Great information John. I have two natural finish Magnatones.. I'll check the serial numbers to see were they fall in this pattern..
Thanks!
_________________
"Don't be mad honey, but I bought another one" |
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