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Topic: Ground hum |
Jerry Horch
From:
Alva, Florida, USA
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Posted 15 Apr 2018 3:29 pm |
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Playing in church...we have a really big bose system a 42 channel board and the system sounds really good .I play thru a sterio steel rig with Hilton pedal and run direct into the sound system.My problem is the hum I get with volume pedal on with volume.not really noticable when playing with the band.I know lights dimmers and grounds effect it too.What can I do to clean it up? Thanks for the help and advicetoo.
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Franklin D10 /Walker Sterio Steel JBL's /DigiTech Quad4/ Korg Toneworks/ Dobro DM 1000 / Santa Cruz Guitar VA |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 15 Apr 2018 5:16 pm
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Not really clear what your problem is the way you worded it.
Is the hum *only* present when the volume pedal is connected and powered on?
And are you saying it's NOT very noticeable when the band is playing? Is it noticeable when the volume pedal is at "zero"?
Are you using ANY other powered items besides the volume pedal and amp? Is the problem the same with everything else eliminated?
Have you 1) tried the same volume pedal with a different steel (or any guitar) but the same amp, and 2( with the same steel but a different amp? Have you tried replacing each guitar cable one at a time?
Is the pedal plugged into the same power source as everything else you use? Even ONE other item? What is each item powered by - and have you tested the wall outlets fro correct polarity (if not go to a hardware store, by a $7 polarity tester and test the outlets before bothering with anything else)
Are there dimmers in the room? Fluorescent lights (including the small, curly light bulb replacements?)
There are a LOT of possibilities, and the source(s) need to be determined before a solution found. If one is even possible.
One important tip, though - if there is a sound system and someone doing mixing DO NOT let them ( or anyone else regardless) do a "ground lift" on your equipment. That's a "last resort" solution rarely needed and very dangerous if done when nOT needed!!
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 15 Apr 2018 5:59 pm
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A Hum-X, by EBTECH, may help. Mine has reduced or eliminated hum for me quite a few times.
It is not a ground lift.
Click Here
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Lee, from South Texas - Down On The Rio Grande
There are only two options as I see it.
Either I'm right, or there is a sinister conspiracy to conceal the fact that I'm right.
Williams Keyless S-10, BMI S-10, Evans FET-500LV, Fender Steel King, 2 Roland Cube 80XL's,
Sarno FreeLoader, Goodrich Passive Volume Pedals, Vintage ACE Pack-A-Seat |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 15 Apr 2018 6:44 pm
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Respectfully, while the title of the thread is "ground hum" the source is not known - and the Hum-X is only intended for hum issues related to line voltages and ground loops.
I stand by my position of actually identifying the problem - THEN suggesting solutions. A Hum-X is just a guess when the problem may be completely unrelated.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Dave Meis
From:
Olympic Peninsula, Washington, USA
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Posted 15 Apr 2018 6:49 pm
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| The Walker Stereo Steel has a ground lift switch next to the XLR out, marked LFT... have you tried that? hope this helps. |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 16 Apr 2018 11:21 am
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NEVER lift the ground unless you KNOW that's the issue and that your system is safely grounded otherwise.
A ground lift is a potential electrocution device - it's ONLY used if you absolutely know what you're doing.
FIND THE SOURCE OF THE HUM.
Then determine the safe solution. Never experiment with line voltage, ever - and don't flip switches just to "see if this works".
Twice I have had stage hands lift grounds to my gear to try to fix THEIR hum issue (without my knowledge) with me being knocked to the ground by being hit with 120VAC. I was VERY lucky.
After the second time I adopted a policy of never allowing anyone to touch power on the stage without my knowledge.
It's impossible to propose effective solutions to a hum problem until the SOURCE of the hum is identified.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Jerry Horch
From:
Alva, Florida, USA
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Posted 16 Apr 2018 2:36 pm
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Ok , its a hum that gets louder with volume on the volume pedal.there are lots of lights with dimmers on them.I dont think my equipment is at fault,good chords new hilton ect. Im going to try running some power from a different source. I believe the outlets are properly grounded, but thats what Im going to check.Will try the lft switch on my amp to see if thatdoes anything.
_________________
Franklin D10 /Walker Sterio Steel JBL's /DigiTech Quad4/ Korg Toneworks/ Dobro DM 1000 / Santa Cruz Guitar VA |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 16 Apr 2018 2:39 pm
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Does your guitar have single-coil pickups?
_________________
Lee, from South Texas - Down On The Rio Grande
There are only two options as I see it.
Either I'm right, or there is a sinister conspiracy to conceal the fact that I'm right.
Williams Keyless S-10, BMI S-10, Evans FET-500LV, Fender Steel King, 2 Roland Cube 80XL's,
Sarno FreeLoader, Goodrich Passive Volume Pedals, Vintage ACE Pack-A-Seat |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 16 Apr 2018 2:59 pm
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The combination of fluorescent fixtures, dimmers, and single coils often results in hum a-go-go. These E-H units work, but sometimes add odd artifacts. There was a room I formerly played where I could not get along without one.
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Keith Hilton
From:
248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721
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Posted 16 Apr 2018 5:01 pm
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Jerry, I can understand what you are going through. Several years ago I played at the Roy Clark Theater in Branson. Very big theater with lots of lights, dimmers, and wires running everywhere on stage and under the stage. I was playing a guitar with single coil pickups.
The hum was so bad I could hardly stand it. I could take the same equipment home, with everything exactly the same, and the system was dead quiet. I bought an expensive power conditioner that did nothing to reduce the hum.
Jerry, hum has many sources, including differences in ground potential, and signals in the air. Think about this; every piece of equipment in the building has a different ground potential. Differences in ground potentials cause ground loop hum. Florescent, and other types of lighting cause noise generated through the air. Dimmers and other types of devices cause generated noise. I've even heard of the new modern LED lighting causing problems with routing speeds in computers. You need to remember, your guitar strings, and single coil pickup are similar to a antenna and transmitter. A antenna and transmitter is designed to pick up signals--any signal.
You can try different hum defeating boxes, and ground lifting devices, with no guarantee they will work. By the way, lifting ground can be dangerous.
Looking back, at the Roy Clark Theatre, what would I have done different--knowing what I know now? The best way to defeat hum is either with a humbucking pickup, or balanced lines. I prefer a single coil over a humbucking pickup, but the trade off in slightly better sound/response is not worth the hum. Just my opinion. Balanced lines work, but the guitar world uses 1/4 unbalanced connection cords. For Balanced lines to work, everything in the system must use balanced lines. Many "supposed" Balanced lines are wired wrong making them unbalanced. So---if I had to relive my life, looking back at playing at the Roy Clark Theater---I should have used a guitar with a humbucking pickup. But--hind sight is 20/20. |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 16 Apr 2018 5:46 pm
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| Lee Baucum wrote: |
| Does your guitar have single-coil pickups? |
At this point, we still don't know.
_________________
Lee, from South Texas - Down On The Rio Grande
There are only two options as I see it.
Either I'm right, or there is a sinister conspiracy to conceal the fact that I'm right.
Williams Keyless S-10, BMI S-10, Evans FET-500LV, Fender Steel King, 2 Roland Cube 80XL's,
Sarno FreeLoader, Goodrich Passive Volume Pedals, Vintage ACE Pack-A-Seat |
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Jim Robbins
From:
Ontario, Canada
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Posted 16 Apr 2018 6:50 pm
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| Jack Hanson wrote: |
The combination of fluorescent fixtures, dimmers, and single coils often results in hum a-go-go. These E-H units work, but sometimes add odd artifacts. There was a room I formerly played where I could not get along without one.
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Ditto. Very useful pedal.
Also, I've found that a stroboflip, or at least my stroboflip, can add a lot of hum in some rooms if it's plugged in even without being turned on. |
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Godfrey Arthur
From:
3rd Rock
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Posted 16 Apr 2018 10:34 pm Re: Ground hum
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| Jerry Horch wrote: |
| I play thru a sterio steel rig with Hilton pedal and run direct into the sound system.My problem is the hum I get |
Is your psg rig seeing AC connection aside from the sound system's AC connection?
Not clear as to what you meant by "stereo steel rig."
Do you have a psg amp besides the direct to the Bose?
Could be that your sound system is on another outlet from your psg rig and you're getting a ground loop, too many paths to ground.
If so, connecting your rig and the sound system off the same outlet may solve the problem.
The other question brought up is if your pickup is single coil.
_________________
ShoBud The Pro 1
YES it's my REAL NAME!
Ezekiel 33:7 |
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Jerry Horch
From:
Alva, Florida, USA
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Posted 17 Apr 2018 7:48 am
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BL 710's. Sorry I. 'm not an electronic whizz.I think you hit it on the head Keith. Gonna try a Hum Ex and run a seperate surge protector chord from the floor outlet I plug into.I'll get back after Sunday.thanks all
_________________
Franklin D10 /Walker Sterio Steel JBL's /DigiTech Quad4/ Korg Toneworks/ Dobro DM 1000 / Santa Cruz Guitar VA |
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Dick Wood
From:
Springtown Texas, USA
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Posted 17 Apr 2018 9:33 am
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I've played in just about every type of venue, beer joint or whatever and never heard hum with the BL710 or any humbucker type pickup.
Could the 710 possibly be wired wrong? Maybe as a single coil?
One way to check that is to turn your guitar in different directions and see if the hum diminishes.
Just my .02 worth.
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Cops aren't paid much so I steel at night. |
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Jerry Horch
From:
Alva, Florida, USA
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Posted 17 Apr 2018 2:02 pm
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Its not my equipment...its got to be ground loop noise or the other things mentioned.played at an outside venue a couple weeks ago with absolute zero hum. Still gonna try the hum ex in the church bldg.
_________________
Franklin D10 /Walker Sterio Steel JBL's /DigiTech Quad4/ Korg Toneworks/ Dobro DM 1000 / Santa Cruz Guitar VA |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 19 Apr 2018 12:04 pm
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You can use every hum eliminator available and not completely solve the problem. This is not about YOUR equipment - you are dealing with external issues.
You mentioned "lots of dimmers" - are those on a dedicated light control board or are the wall-mounted dimmers that are used in place of switches?
If the former, the problem is in the light board - NOT your gear and you can't solve it. It's a lighting issue that needs to be solved by the lighting crew.
OTOH, if you are dealing with wall-mounted dimmers there's pretty much nothing you can do. A hHUm-x or other unit may help a bit but not solve it. Those dimmers simply create and environment with inherent hum.
When we designed out church building there was an electrical/acoustical consultant involved that specifically excluded those. DImmers and Fluorescent lights are hum machines that can only partially be compensated for by shielding and use of humbucking pickups.
DO NOT USE THE GROUND LIFT SWITCH. It only solves issues with YOUR equipment and will not solve external problems like this. All it will do is create a dangerous situation.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Jerry Horch
From:
Alva, Florida, USA
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Posted 20 Apr 2018 4:22 am
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Thanks,I discovered at home last night that when I grabbed my short cord from guitar jack to pedal I got quite a range of hum moving it around a bit.My cords are Monster cords ,pricey at the time.replaced the 3' with a cheap spare and reduced hum a lot.So I'm thinking of re-cableing.3' & 12'.looked at Mogavi platnum cords.Expensive but have good reviews.Any thoughts on Mogavi cords?
_________________
Franklin D10 /Walker Sterio Steel JBL's /DigiTech Quad4/ Korg Toneworks/ Dobro DM 1000 / Santa Cruz Guitar VA |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 20 Apr 2018 12:04 pm
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If hum changed when you moved the cable it sounds like it had a poor internal connection.
I assume you mean "Mogami"? They, like Monster and most other major makers, manufacture cheap, medium-quality and high-end cables, mostly dependent on the nature of the connector - not the wire.
IMO Monster's cables are overpriced - but so are most widely-advertised cables. I prefer George L and Disaster Area cables myself, but you can use Mogami, Proco, whatever -
But I would also check - and use cleaner/lube like Caig D-5 - on the jacks you're plugging into. switching cables may have only temporarily solved a contact problem at one jack that may return when *any* cable is turned a certain way.
I should have asked about cable swaps at the very start, but since most players carry spares and swap cables as step one whenever hum is present I assumed you'd already tried it.
You should always have spare cables on hand, and it's a good idea to use cleaner/lube on all cable ends and jacks every 6 months or so.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Keith Hilton
From:
248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721
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Posted 20 Apr 2018 8:06 pm
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| For some time I have suspected the use of poor quality metal used in today's guitar cords. Especially in the shielding, which winds up being the ground. Good copper costs more money than other metals. Most of the guitar cords sold in music stores come from China. |
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Jerry Horch
From:
Alva, Florida, USA
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Posted 23 Apr 2018 3:22 pm
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Got a set of Mogami Platinum cables, 12' & 3' instrument cables. Not trying to "plug em" in any way , but wow.....what a difference.my guitars sound really barks. No noise what so ever. I like em,thanks everybody
_________________
Franklin D10 /Walker Sterio Steel JBL's /DigiTech Quad4/ Korg Toneworks/ Dobro DM 1000 / Santa Cruz Guitar VA |
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Ken Fox
From:
Nashville GA USA
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Posted 24 Apr 2018 3:16 am
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| If you are in fact plugged into the sound system via a shielded cable that is grounded to that sound system as well as grounded to your equipment you will suffer ground loop hum, period. For years I worked on designing sound systems. Seen the ground loop issue over and over again. Your connection to the system should be a balanced connection, no ground reference for the audio signal. The shielded cable should not be grounded to the source, your gear. It should be grounded at the mixer end only. A good direct box with a ground lift should fix the issue. |
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