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Topic: Restringing question |
Jeffrey McFadden
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 13 Mar 2018 2:00 pm |
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Some time before very long I will be restringing my E9 neck on my Carter.
I've never put strings in a changer before, and don't see like I used to.
When I have the string off the peghead do I just wiggle it around & push downward to get it free from the changer? To put the new string in do I just poke the ball end down alongside the changer and push / wiggle it to get it to lock back in?
_________________
Well up into mediocrity
I don't play what I'm supposed to.
Home made guitars |
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DG Whitley
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Dick Sexton
From:
Greenville, Ohio
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Jeffrey McFadden
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 13 Mar 2018 6:28 pm
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Thanks, all
Duh. If I hadn't found this forum I'd have gone straight to YouTube. 
At least I got sent straight to Carter so I don't feel quite so stupid.
_________________
Well up into mediocrity
I don't play what I'm supposed to.
Home made guitars |
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Ed Boyd
From:
Illinois, USA
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Jeffrey McFadden
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 13 Mar 2018 7:44 pm
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I'm coming to understand that 3rd strings are a weak point. Better stock up.
I just bought a couple whole sets, not here yet, but my inner Boy Scout is saying, "Be Prepared."
_________________
Well up into mediocrity
I don't play what I'm supposed to.
Home made guitars |
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Stu Schulman
From:
Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)
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Posted 14 Mar 2018 1:20 am
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Jeffrey,It's good to have some 3rd string back ups around Justin case ,I keep mine in a zip lock bag.
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Steeltronics Z-pickup,Desert Rose S-10 4+5,Desert Rose Keyless S-10 3+5... Mullen G2 S-10 3+5,Telonics 206 pickups,Telonics volume pedal.,Blanton SD -10,Emmons GS_10...Zirctone bar,Bill Groner Bar...any amp that isn't broken.Steel Seat.Com seats...Licking paint chips off of Chinese Toys since 1952. |
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Bill Ford
From:
Graniteville SC Aiken
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Posted 15 Mar 2018 2:32 pm
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FWIW.. Remove all strings (don't cut them off)clean all surface areas,put a drop of lube on sides of each roller, start with first string, when you get the front half of the keyhead done, then start with the last #10/9/8/7 etc work your way down to the end.Get a piece of sponge and push it behind each string to hold it in place at the changer while you wind it to tension.A soft paint brush works good to clean inside the keyhead.
Hope this helps...BF
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Bill Ford S12 CLR, S12 Lamar keyless, Misc amps&toys Sharp Covers
Steeling for Jesus now!!! |
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Jeffrey McFadden
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 15 Mar 2018 2:36 pm
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| Bill Ford wrote: |
FWIW.. Remove all strings (don't cut them off)clean all surface areas,put a drop of lube on sides of each roller, start with first string, when you get the front half of the keyhead done, then start with the last #10/9/8/7 etc work your way down to the end.Get a piece of sponge and push it behind each string to hold it in place at the changer while you wind it to tension.A soft paint brush works good to clean inside the keyhead.
Hope this helps...BF |
Excellent information. Thank you.
Historically I've always changed strings one at a time. It sounds, from your advice, like I need them all off at once to do routine maintenance & cleaning. I wouldn't have thought of that.
There are two sets somewhere between the forum store and here, so it'll be soon.
But now I gotta order some spare 3rd strings too.
_________________
Well up into mediocrity
I don't play what I'm supposed to.
Home made guitars |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 15 Mar 2018 5:22 pm
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In my experience I've found that peace of mind comes with changing the fifth (B) string as well. Maybe they're not quite as vulnerable as the 3rd but if you lose the 5th in mid-gig you'll be up the creek without a paddle.
When I'm playing nightly in a show I now change both the 3rd and 5th each week. Better safe than sorry....
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Roger Rettig - Emmons D10s, Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and old Martins.
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 15 Mar 2018 6:50 pm Restringing Qusetion
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It is good idea to take all the strings off at one time and clean the dust bunnies out from around the pickup-changer area and clean the fret board. About every 3 or 4 string changes I like to take the nut rollers out and clean them, check the shaft and lube them. I string the rollers on a an old guitar string to keep them in order. Want to make sure you get them back in the same order.
You need to keep extra 3rd and 5th strings, They are the ones that break the most often. It is also good to keep a full set too. I have had 1 10th string and 1 8th to break.
Welcome to the Adventure, Good Luck |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 15 Mar 2018 7:26 pm
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Oh, and you'll figure this out soon enough, but Carters are a little unusual in that on some of the fingers, the slot that the string sits in is not aligned with the center of the finger. It's off to the side of the finger.
Take a look at your changer and you'll see what I'm talking about. When stringing up, before tightening up, be sure the string is routed in line with the slot (rather than angled a little so as to be centered on the finger). It may look funny, but this maintains the correct string spacing.
When installing the slot end of the string, look closely at the ball-end. There will be either a nub of the end of the string poking out, or else a bump on the string where it's double over and wrapped. You don't want either of those parts of the string to be the part touching the back of the finger. You want it to lie flat, and/or not scratch the finger with the string nub. So you want to look at the string closely, figure out which side will be 'up,' then fight with it to get it into the slot to make it so.
And speaking of the slots, the string likes to jump out as you're installing it, so you need to wedge something in there to temporarily hold it in place while you're working on the keyhead end. Everybody has their preferred cramming object. I use the envelope the string came in, folded into a tiny square and crammed into the slot at the back of the changer. Works great and by definition, I always have one handy (literally... in my hand while changing strings). |
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John Swain
From:
Winchester, Va
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Posted 16 Mar 2018 5:06 am
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| Another one of Carter idiosyncrasies, don't turn the guitar over with the 6th string removed. The idler linkage will disconnect without the pressure holding it in place! |
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Jeffrey McFadden
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 16 Mar 2018 5:52 am
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| John Swain wrote: |
| Another one of Carter idiosyncrasies, don't turn the guitar over with the 6th string removed. The idler linkage will disconnect without the pressure holding it in place! |
A rational person probably wouldn't get the urge to turn his guitar upside down in mid- restring.
Unfortunately I'm not him.
really glad for this warning!
This excellent video pointed out the Carter "off-center changer finger" issue, which would have been a serious trap for me.
I appreciate all of you. Thanks.
_________________
Well up into mediocrity
I don't play what I'm supposed to.
Home made guitars |
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Tommy Mc
From:
Middlesex VT
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Posted 16 Mar 2018 1:43 pm
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Just to add my 2¢ to the subject.... I attach my strings to the tuning post the same way as for a guitar. Bending the excess back under the incoming string creates a lock. Using this method, you really don't need to wrap the string more than a couple times around the post. I know that many folks feel that more wraps are better, but my strings don't slip, and it takes less time for the strings to settle in. I can't prove it, but I've always suspected that a substantial part of "new string stretching" is really all those winds settling in around the post.
I generally change strings one-at-a-time unless I need to do some maintenance. That way, you can use the other strings as a reference to ear-tune the new string(s). I also have a small wooden wedge to slip behind the changer finger to hold the string in place until it gets some tension on it.
As others have mentioned, in addition to one spare set, keep a good supply of spare .011's and a couple of .017's on hand. |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 16 Mar 2018 10:50 pm
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| Tommy Mc wrote: |
| Using this method, you really don't need to wrap the string more than a couple times around the post. I know that many folks feel that more wraps are better, but my strings don't slip, and it takes less time for the strings to settle in. |
Fair enough. But there's another issue to consider: ideally, the string should not be coming off of the post over the hole, and that's what happens when there are only a few wraps. The lip of the hole in the post is a sharp edge, and sometimes its rough enough to cause some of the thinner strings to break at that point after a little use if they happen to be sitting right on that lip as they exit the post. Depends on the guitar, and how well the tuning keys were made. Some guitars are pretty bad about cutting strings.
That's why that Carter video mentioned above recommended pulling the string taught and cutting it roughly two tuner keys beyond the one you're connecting to; that measurement ensures you have enough length so that those extra wraps push the string off to the side of the hole. Works great and they still settle in within a few minutes after restringing.
Oh, they also recommend measuring off the equivalent of four tuning posts past the target when doing the 3rd string since it's so thin. Meanwhile, every other string is two posts... and you can do a bit less than two on the really fat strings like 9 and 10 since it's hard to even get that much length to fit on the post. |
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Tommy Mc
From:
Middlesex VT
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Posted 17 Mar 2018 6:02 am
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| Tucker Jackson wrote: |
Fair enough. But there's another issue to consider: ideally, the string should not be coming off of the post over the hole, and that's what happens when there are only a few wraps. The lip of the hole in the post is a sharp edge, and sometimes its rough enough to cause some of the thinner strings to break at that point after a little use if they happen to be sitting right on that lip as they exit the post. Depends on the guitar, and how well the tuning keys were made. Some guitars are pretty bad about cutting strings.
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That makes total sense, it just hasn't been a problem for me. Originally, I was experimenting with how few winds I could get away with on my electric guitar when using the "locking" method. On the wound strings, I can get away with less than one wind with no slippage. The plain strings need about 1.5 winds. Aside from less time "settling in", I spend less time turning the peg. (IMHO, peg winders are a lot more of a pain to use on a guitar than a steel that sits steady)
Anyway, I eventually applied this same method to stringing my steel. It may be that the Grover tuners on my MSA are some of the good ones without sharp edges, or possibly the "tucked under" string buffers the edge of the hole. Either way, I've simply never experienced a string breakage any other place than at the bridge. The way I measure the string length is to attach it at the bridge and run the other end through the hole in the tuner. Then I lift the string off the neck about 4 fingers height. Holding the string firm, I bend the excess back and under itself at the post. Snip off the excess and tune. This typically yields 2 or 3 winds.
Of course, I acknowledge that other very respected players have had different experiences. I can only relate what works for me. |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 17 Mar 2018 9:11 am
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Yep, Tommy. I figured your guitar wasn't one that cut strings at the tuning post. Otherwise, you wouldn't have been advocating for going minimal wraps. It's great for those that can do it, for the reasons you mentioned.
We do see posts here from time to time with players complaining that they are breaking strings at the keyhead-end, which is usually caused by the edge of the hole after some normal pedal-stomping. My comments were really intended for the general public who maybe hadn't thought about all this and didn't want to risk finding out how good their tuners were in that respect. It's a 'best practices' thing to cover the mass of guitars out there. Going the other way, although I'm not one to tempt fate when it comes to string breakage, for a lot of guitars it may not be necessary to be so cautious. People can experiment and see how it goes. |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 17 Mar 2018 10:23 pm Restringing
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I usually cut my unwound strings the distance between the tuners on my guitars and 3rd one a little more.
We got some strings that were brittle and breaking easy. I broke one on stage at a gig on Friday night. I cut the string a little shorter than usual so I could wind it on fast. Did not have enough to wind off the hole through the key shaft.
Saturday afternoon I was working on a song for the gig that night. That 3rd string broke at the tuner, My bar hand was in just the right on the neck. That string broke at the tuner hole came across my bar hand in buried to the bone near the ring on my right ring finger. It hurt to even move my hand till I got the end of the string pulled out of my finger. OUCH!!!!
I always make sure I cut them long after that. |
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