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Author Topic:  Writing an orginal instrumental song on pedal steel
Curt Trisko


From:
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
Post  Posted 28 Feb 2018 8:37 am    
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Doug Beaumier wrote:
That's an interesting approach. You begin by recording phrases that would normally be background fills to a melody, but there is no melody. Unusual, because backup playing normally responds to and works around the main melody, vocal or instrumental. So your writing partner will compose a melody based on your backup phrases? Or there will be no melody, just the phrases?


Not really. I guess for what I have so far you could liken it to Bruce Kaphan's work. Not just background fills, but no real melody you could hum either. What my writing partner does with it is his business and I'm curious to see what he'll come up with. I just want my part to have enough structure and give him enough cues so that it's not a giant headache for him.

The structure problem is what caused me to ask for help in this post. If I'm capable of it, I'd like my ears to determine where the song goes and then reconcile it with basic song structure where they aren't consistent.
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Doug Beaumier


From:
Northampton, MA
Post  Posted 28 Feb 2018 10:04 am    
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Ah, I'm starting to get the picture now. It's basically New Age music, serene, improv, understated melody.
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Curt Trisko


From:
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
Post  Posted 28 Feb 2018 10:10 am    
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Doug Beaumier wrote:
Ah, I'm starting to get the picture now. It's basically New Age music, serene, improv, understated melody.


Lol, maybe?! He'll make it into what he wants, but his other stuff has been what he calls 'ambient jazz' or something like that. But yes, more of a sonic experience than a song that you'd hum to yourself. I just want to give him something very steel-ish with compelling atmosphere and phrases.
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Doug Beaumier


From:
Northampton, MA
Post  Posted 28 Feb 2018 10:12 am    
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Well, in that case, I think you're on the right track. Cool
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Jim Eaton


From:
Santa Susana, Ca
Post  Posted 28 Feb 2018 3:02 pm    
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From a few years back. Enjoy.
JE:-)>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QquirQnttOQ
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Wally Moyers


From:
Lubbock, Texas
Post  Posted 28 Feb 2018 7:36 pm    
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If you want to write an original melody try to write it without your instrument so your not limited to what you know how to play.. Sonny Throckmorton told me that years ago when I was playing on some of his demos.. If you Google him you'll see he knows what hes talking about. Sometimes when I write I start with a grove/style in mind so I start by writing the head/verse of the song. For inspiration I may pull up a B3 or trumpet sound on the keyboard or just sing what comes to me as the track I've created plays. Once I find a melody I like I'll learn it on the steel. I did that on the song "Don't Fret" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4WS2lAKjpo .. On another song I came up with a lick that I liked on steel and it inspired the rest. On this one I wanted to write something like a pop ballad, kind of like Kenny G. would do.. I call it "Let's Talk About it". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En5qGut3pyw I always write in my studio so I'll write it in sections and usually build the track in sections and then cut and paste the sections until I'm happy with it all.
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Tony Prior


From:
Charlotte NC
Post  Posted 1 Mar 2018 3:38 am    
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Curt Trisko wrote:
Doug Beaumier wrote:
Ah, I'm starting to get the picture now. It's basically New Age music, serene, improv, understated melody.


Lol, maybe?! He'll make it into what he wants, but his other stuff has been what he calls 'ambient jazz' or something like that. But yes, more of a sonic experience than a song that you'd hum to yourself. I just want to give him something very steel-ish with compelling atmosphere and phrases.



but thats not ALL MUSIC and all musicians, it's one specific very small genre. Hopefully you are not placing all who play Instrumentals on Steel into this category.

That would be like saying the Steel is only good to play Sleepwalk.
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Doug Beaumier


From:
Northampton, MA
Post  Posted 1 Mar 2018 7:00 am    
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I read the original post again, the part about changing a chord on beat 4 instead of beat 1, and chopping off a measure here and there, and would that be a problem for your co-writer. IMO, if you're playing free form music, play what you feel. Your co-writer should be able to count the beats and work with what you give him. I don't know much about this style of music, but I think I would go for a smooth, relaxing arrangement, nothing jarring for the listener.
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Fred Treece


From:
California, USA
Post  Posted 1 Mar 2018 8:05 am    
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On Sirius/XM, there is a channel called “Spa”. All new age synth spacey stuff that is too down tempo for the elevator or dentist office. More meditative, like for yoga class. If you spend a day listening to that channel, you will definitely get some ideas that I think you are looking for. You will also talk and walk slower, and develop an appetite for tofu...
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Doug Beaumier


From:
Northampton, MA
Post  Posted 1 Mar 2018 8:12 am    
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Quote:
You will also talk and walk slower, and develop an appetite for tofu...


Cool Smoking a couple of joints along with your favorite beverage is also helpful for composing this stuff. Winking
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Curt Trisko


From:
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
Post  Posted 1 Mar 2018 8:17 am    
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Doug Beaumier wrote:
I read the original post again, the part about changing a chord on beat 4 instead of beat 1, and chopping off a measure here and there, and would that be a problem for your co-writer. IMO, if you're playing free form music, play what you feel. Your co-writer should be able to count the beats and work with what you give him. I don't know much about this style of music, but I think I would go for a smooth, relaxing arrangement, nothing jarring for the listener.


Thanks for taking a second look at it. A couple Q's about that:

1) is there a method for composition where I can be mindful of the song structure while not letting it preoccupy me to the extent that it distracts me from playing what my ear wants to hear? If I compose to a click track and am constantly thinking about what chord and beat I want to end up on, I feel that it might suck the inspiration out of how I get there and how I do the intricacies of the phrasing.

2) For the times when my ear tells me to play something different than what the basic songwriting rules and common sense would dictate, can I ever have faith that what my ear wants me to play is somehow rooted in a part of music theory that I don't know yet? In other words, that maybe my ear is remembering something from a different song that is more advanced than the level I'm at.
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Doug Beaumier


From:
Northampton, MA
Post  Posted 1 Mar 2018 8:51 am    
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I think a click track (click only, no chords) is probably a good idea. I would want the tempo to be fairly consistent, especially if your friend is going to be playing to your track. I don't know what to say about what you should or shouldn't play. Just play what you feel. I wouldn't be too concerned with conventional rules of music for this style. I guess it depends on how far you want to go with the free form, and that's up to you. Personally, I would decide on a chord progression first, make a track, and play along with the track for a couple of hours, trying all kind of ideas, and trying to avoid cliche' A & B pedal steel licks. And effects... delay, reverb, overdrive, and other effects, trying to get an etherial, otherworldly sound. That's what I would do. IMO even free form music needs some form or structure, but not an expert in this style.
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Fred Treece


From:
California, USA
Post  Posted 1 Mar 2018 9:02 am    
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I agree with the click track and nothing else but... I would suggest working with an actual percussion groove.

To get an idea for some semblance of recurring riff/motif, I would add a chord to the groove, or at least a bass part that suggests a tonal center. I also agree with Doug on this. Absence of a tonal reference is really not very inspiring to me.
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Curt Trisko


From:
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
Post  Posted 1 Mar 2018 9:15 am    
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Fred Treece wrote:
I agree with the click track and nothing else but... I would suggest working with an actual percussion groove.

To get an idea for some semblance of recurring riff/motif, I would add a chord to the groove, or at least a bass part that suggests a tonal center. I also agree with Doug on this. Absence of a tonal reference is really not very inspiring to me.


The tonal reference thing makes a lot of sense. Because I plan on having the steel part occupy different parts of the arrangement (melody, harmony, etc.), the tonal reference would really only be for reference, right? ... that I don't have to be preoccupied with it or feel that I need to revolve around it, just that I don't stray too far away for too long, right? I feel like I can count on the other guy to arrange his parts in a way to keep the steel grounded. In this instance, I imagine the tonal reference would just be the root notes of the key I'm in: F minor/A flat major.
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Fred Treece


From:
California, USA
Post  Posted 1 Mar 2018 10:24 am    
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Only you can answer whether something sounds right or not. The tonal reference allows you a lot of freedom to wander, but also gives you something to come back home to.

For example...I happen to like the way a Gb major 7th riff sounds over an Fm chord, but only if the riff leads the way back to Fm, or whatever the next chord is. A programmed bass part will imply whatever chord you have programmed into your track, but that still leaves you plenty of space for experimentation.

The only problem I see working with a percussion track is that it might not match up with what your partner has in mind.

All this advice may be constricting your creative energy. Just get tracking. Have some fun and see what happens.
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Doug Beaumier


From:
Northampton, MA
Post  Posted 1 Mar 2018 10:56 am    
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Yes, just play and play until you come up with something that sounds good to you. It could be a theme, a couple of interesting chords, a series of harmonized notes, or just ambient sounds. This is where your creativity comes into play. The rules and the forms of music have little to do with it IMO.
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Curt Trisko


From:
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
Post  Posted 1 Mar 2018 8:02 pm    
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Thanks for the encouragement, guys! I don't want it to end up being totally free-form if I can avoid it. I don't want my friend to have to cut apart my track in order to salvage usable parts.

Here's what I've been done a little bit so far and think I'll see if it goes anywhere: first, sit down with no click track and only have in mind what key the song will be in; then, come up with a phrase and how it will lead into the next one; next, step back, put on the click track and see how it conforms - and adjust it to conform; then to the extent that it has lost it's luster, sit down again and tinker with it to sweeten it back up. For overall structure, I think I'll have it be so that it's 3 or 4 'movements' of 3 or phrases each, with the start of each movement being a play on the same musical theme - and then some kind of finale/outro that reiterates that theme.

No one has suggested this approach, so it's making me think that doing it this way might just create a result that is the worst of both words: lacking in the impulse of raw creativity and also lacking in the symmetry of a more deliberate methodology.
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