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Topic: Is this a horseshoe pickup? |
Peter Funk
From:
Germany
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Posted 23 Feb 2018 8:45 am |
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I recently purchased a 1935 National electric hawaiian guitar. Sounds fantastic and looks beautiful (video is in the making  )
Yesterday I heard a buzzing from inside when playing a specific tone, so I opened it up, to have a look.
Now I have some questions: Is this, what you call a horseshoe pickup (and what is the difference to a Humbucker or Single Coil)?
The buzzing came from the (loose) part marked with the green arrow. Can I turn the screw marked with the red arrow so far as to fix the other part? I didn't dare and stuffed some paper into the slot between the loose part and the part that looks like a horseshoe ...
Any suggestions would be appreciated!
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Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
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Posted 23 Feb 2018 9:04 am Re: Is this a horseshoe pickup?
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Technically, it is a horseshoe magnet - after all, it's a magnet shaped like a horseshoe - but steel players use the term in a specific way that's different from this. In the world of steel guitars, a horseshoe pickup is one in which the magnets go around the strings like so:
| Peter Funk wrote: |
| (and what is the difference to a Humbucker or Single Coil)? |
"Humbucker" is a trade name for a hum-cancelling pickup. To achieve this, most humbuckers have two coils wound in opposite directions and sitting in opposite magnetic polarities; this filters out background noise while allowing the vibrations of the strings to be picked up. Humbuckers have to have an even number of coils (normally two), so a single-coil pickup like yours does not cancel the hum.
| Peter Funk wrote: |
| The buzzing came from the (loose) part marked with the green arrow. Can I turn the screw marked with the red arrow so far as to fix the other part? |
Yes indeed, that screw is intended to hold everything together by pushing the pole pieces up against the magnet. It should be reasonably tight. |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 23 Feb 2018 11:18 am
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To learn about pickup types - or really much of anything - simply Google the subject.
You'll get results like this, which is WELL worth reading for every electric player:
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| https://www.seymourduncan.com/support-pickups-101/getting-started |
The rear view of your pickup looks nothing like a horseshoe pickup, which were (in those days) only made by Rickenbacker. If you post a top view I may be able to tell you what you have - a full top picture would help identify the model.
Your picture is too dark to tell if you can turn the bolt (I don't see an arrow pointing towards a screw).. Please post one with lighting that eliminates the shadows and it may be possible to advise you - but it's unlikely a mechanical buzz would be coming from that part of the assembly.
What note(s) is/are causing the buzz, and is it momentary or does it sustain? Does it do the same thing through another amp - or with NO amp?
Turning screws on a pickup assembly without knowing *exactly* what they do can wreck the pickup, so don't do anything if none of us can positively advise you.
Honestly, as you don't know the difference between single coils and humbuckers I'm guessing you don't have guitar tech experience - if that's true, even with good advice you'd be better off taking it to a qualified guitar tech.
Also - the bare wire bothers me since it appears to be the signal "hot" lead. It needs to be insulated or you will probably start having intermittent shorts.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
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Posted 23 Feb 2018 12:24 pm
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| Jim Sliff wrote: |
| a horseshoe pickup, which were (in those days) only made by Rickenbacker. If you post a top view I may be able to tell you what you have - a full top picture would help identify the model. |
Horseshoe pickups were also built by Vega, Kay and Epiphone in the '30s. As Peter stated, his guitar is a National Electric Hawaiian - that's the model name. |
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Peter Funk
From:
Germany
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Posted 23 Feb 2018 12:58 pm
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| Jim Sliff wrote: |
| If you post a top view I may be able to tell you what you have - a full top picture would help identify the model. |
Here are some more pictures:
| Jim Sliff wrote: |
| Your picture is too dark to tell if you can turn the bolt (I don't see an arrow pointing towards a screw)... |
Sorry, I'm not a native english speaker. Maybe I confused the words "bolt" and "screw". I talk about that thing towards the red arrow is exactly pointing ...
| Jim Sliff wrote: |
but it's unlikely a mechanical buzz would be coming from that part of the assembly.
What note(s) is/are causing the buzz, and is it momentary or does it sustain? Does it do the same thing through another amp - or with NO amp? |
It actually was a mechanical buzz from that part of the assembly, because it has disappeared after I fixed that part with a piece of cardboard. It was buzzing when I hit the first string between frets 9 and 10. With and without amp.
| Jim Sliff wrote: |
Honestly, as you don't know the difference between single coils and humbuckers I'm guessing you don't have guitar tech experience - if that's true, even with good advice you'd be better off taking it to a qualified guitar tech. |
I do know the difference between humbuckers and single coils but wasn't sure about horseshoes. But as you advised, I should have had asked Google before ...
| Jim Sliff wrote: |
Also - the bare wire bothers me since it appears to be the signal "hot" lead. It needs to be insulated or you will probably start having intermittent shorts. |
Thank you, I will take care of that! |
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Peter Funk
From:
Germany
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Posted 23 Feb 2018 1:01 pm Re: Is this a horseshoe pickup?
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| Noah Miller wrote: |
Technically, it is a horseshoe magnet - after all, it's a magnet shaped like a horseshoe - but steel players use the term in a specific way that's different from this. In the world of steel guitars, a horseshoe pickup is one in which the magnets go around the strings like so:
...
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Thanks for the information
| Noah Miller wrote: |
| Peter Funk wrote: |
| The buzzing came from the (loose) part marked with the green arrow. Can I turn the screw marked with the red arrow so far as to fix the other part? |
Yes indeed, that screw is intended to hold everything together by pushing the pole pieces up against the magnet. It should be reasonably tight. |
So, if the buzzing starts again, I might try it VERY carefully ... |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 24 Feb 2018 10:15 am
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It's a mid-1930's National "Electric Hawaiian" model, probably a '33-34 as it lacks a pickup cover.
The top picture is not that clear - is the jack on the top of the bass side and is there a large hole on the treble side? If so it appears to be missing the volume control. If there is another hole in the side the jack is installed where one of the two controls *should* be.
These were made in a few different configurations - some with just a volume control - but nearly all of them have volume and tone controls with a side-mounted jack.
If the holes are there it would be very simple for a qualified guitar tech to set it up in stock configuration.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
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Posted 24 Feb 2018 1:22 pm
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| This is the earliest version of the model, built 1935-6. It appears to be all original. |
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Peter Funk
From:
Germany
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Posted 24 Feb 2018 1:51 pm
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Hello Jim,
thanks again for your reply. After reading this article, I'm sure that this guitar was made in 1935.
As you said, the input jack is on the top of the bass side and the volume control is on the treble side. No tone control. No need for that 
And I'm happy that at least one of my guitars has a "real" horseshoe pickup (the one on the left):
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Peter Funk
From:
Germany
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 24 Feb 2018 3:51 pm
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| Some interesting ways that were done in the old days, for building pickups !! |
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Andy DePaule
From:
Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon
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Posted 24 Feb 2018 4:25 pm Two great steel guitars
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Hi Peter,
Two great steel guitars you have there. Lucky man!
They sure did use large magnets in the old days.
I suspect that is a lot of the reason they sounded so good.
Also the Ricky with the bakelite bodies seem to be the best sounding from that time.
The all aluminum steels also have very good sustain.
Best wishes,
Andy
_________________
Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project. |
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Peter Funk
From:
Germany
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Joe Elk
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 28 Feb 2018 4:31 am
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There is an old Italian saying - Old was are good ways!
Lovely guitar Nicely played and Oh! that sound!
Joe Elk Central Ohio |
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