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Author Topic:  E to Eb Knee Lever
Gary Arnold


From:
Panhandle of Florida, USA
Post Posted 6 Feb 2018 8:48 am     Reply with quote

Could I get some examples of using the E lower knee lever and why it's used. Maybe some history of this change. Thanks, gary

Last edited by Gary Arnold on 7 Feb 2018 2:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ian Rae


From:
Redditch, England
Post Posted 6 Feb 2018 1:29 pm     Reply with quote

You'll find it easier to understand if you call it by its proper name of E to D# lever. It's primary purpose is to supply the 3rd in a chord of B (the 5 chord if you're in E).

Historically, it was the first lever to be added. It lowered string 8 to D# and string 2 to D. Later when improved mechanisms permitted string 4 to be lowered as well, the two functions were separated and a different lever lowered 2 and 9.
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Chris Templeton


From:
The Green Mountain State
Post Posted 6 Feb 2018 1:34 pm     Reply with quote

I think the most common use is playing a 7th (dominant) chord two frets below the A & B pressed position, using the E lever with the B pedal.
I'd say the next common use is using it alone to play a minor chord. (B minor in open position).
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Erv Niehaus


From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
Post Posted 6 Feb 2018 1:55 pm     Reply with quote

I addition to using it to get a minor chord, I use it together with the B pedal to get a 7th chord.
I also use it together with both the A and B pedals to get a 9th chord. Very Happy
Erv
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Richard Sinkler


From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Oakdale, California
Post Posted 6 Feb 2018 3:15 pm     Reply with quote

Isn't using it alone a G# minor chord? A 3 minor?
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Ian Rae


From:
Redditch, England
Post Posted 6 Feb 2018 4:32 pm     Reply with quote

Yes
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Tony Prior


From:
Charlotte NC..
Post Posted 7 Feb 2018 1:09 am     Reply with quote

my premise is that you don't use the E to Eb, (or E to D#) at all and are wondering why it is on the Steel. It would really help in knowing where you are as a student of Steel Guitar. We are all students, even after 4 decades.


There are plenty of great players in Fl, it would be worth a couple hours drive to spend an afternoon with one of them to go over the basics .
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Last edited by Tony Prior on 7 Feb 2018 3:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Lyle Clary


From:
Decatur, Illinois, KC9VCB
Post Posted 7 Feb 2018 9:07 am     Reply with quote

The first pedal steel I sat behind belonged to a musician that played for group that I followed in my home town. I asked him what the knee lever was for and he said I think you can get a seventh chord with it. It was a single ten ShoBud. This pedal lowered 2 and 4.I played a chord pressing A and B and lowered the knee lever. He asked what I just did and I told him. He said he got the same change playing the 2nd string with the rest of the chord. Although I had never played a pedal steel before I gave him a lesson.
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Gary Arnold


From:
Panhandle of Florida, USA
Post Posted 7 Feb 2018 2:08 pm     Reply with quote

WE can all learn. I have been playing over 20 years. Thanks Tony for your input. I was wanting to know why it was put on the steel to begin with and I was looking to see if I could learn something new, I'm always looking for new moves. Like I said we can all learn. Thanks Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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Pat Chong


From:
New Mexico, USA
Post Posted 7 Feb 2018 6:26 pm     Reply with quote

Another easy move to throw in is bumping your e to d# lever before moving to another chord, as accent..................................................
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Kyle Everson


From:
Nashville, Tennessee
Post Posted 7 Feb 2018 9:02 pm     Reply with quote

Hi Gary,

The E to D# lever has many uses, but there are three important ones to consider (in no particular order):

1) As the major seventh in a chord. In open position (fret 0, without using your bar) this would be an Emaj7. The root is E.

2) As the 3 minor chord. In open position this would be a G#m. The root is G#.

3) As the 5 chord. In open position this would be a B major. By adding the 6th string, it becomes a Bmaj6. If you press the second pedal (B pedal), it becomes a B7 (dominant). The root is B.

More complicated chords can be obtained by adding pedal movements and other strings, and with chord substitutions, but these three root chords (or interval movements) are the basis for much of its use in the E9 tuning.

Hope that helps.
Kyle
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Richard Sinkler


From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Oakdale, California
Post Posted 8 Feb 2018 11:02 am     Reply with quote

Kyle Everson wrote:
Hi Gary,

The E to D# lever has many uses, but there are three important ones to consider (in no particular order):

1) As the major seventh in a chord. In open position (fret 0, without using your bar) this would be an Emaj7. The root is E.


2) As the 3 minor chord. In open position this would be a G#m. The root is G#.

3) As the 5 chord. In open position this would be a B major. By adding the 6th string, it becomes a Bmaj6. If you press the second pedal (B pedal), it becomes a B7 (dominant). The root is B.


More complicated chords can be obtained by adding pedal movements and other strings, and with chord substitutions, but these three root chords (or interval movements) are the basis for much of its use in the E9 tuning.

Hope that helps.
Kyle


I found with a lot of newer players (even with a few years under their belt) don't realize that the G#m can be played in place of the Emaj7. The 3 notes in the G#m are also in the Emaj7. You just don't have the root tone (E). Very pretty.

As to making a B chord open, it gives just the 1 & 3 notes of the chord unless you add one of the F# strings, but we all too often only play two notes of a chord. I use that combo (D# and B) a lot.

I only commented to make it a little clearer to a newbie.
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Bobby D. Jones


From:
West Virginia, USA
Post Posted 9 Feb 2018 11:27 am     E to Eb Knee Lever Reply with quote

I got out my Mel Bay Chord Chart and started seriously studying the D (E to Eb-D#)knee lever. Thanks for the inquiry, I used the D knee lever quit a bit but I even learned some things to work on myself.
Chord of E. Open strings E, 5th Fret D knee lever= E, At the 5th fret D Knee lever and Pedal B = E7th and at the 8 fret D Knee lever = Em. These can all be transposed as you move down the neck to other Chords.

Thanks again, for making me get out the chord chart. Now to the Wood Shed to work on some things.
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Richard Sinkler


From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Oakdale, California
Post Posted 9 Feb 2018 3:42 pm     Reply with quote

Another way to readily identify where the e-d# minor is located is, if you have an Emaj chord with A&B pedals at the 7th fret, let off A&B lower the e's and move up one fret, there you have it. An Em.
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James Collett


From:
San Dimas, CA
Post Posted 9 Feb 2018 10:06 pm     Reply with quote

Richard, thanks for the reminder—I always forget that one. Usually when moving from major to minor of the same chord I stay in the pedals up position, then slide back two frets with B+C, which is a lot more cumbersome.

One thing I like about the E-D# pedal is the drones, relative motions, and counterpoints you can get in combination with the C pedal on strings 1,2, and 4. This gets especially cool when you have the String 2 raise to E as well. Here’s a basic lick that relies on that motion between strings 1 and 4, and can easily be elaborated on:


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Fred Treece


From:
California, USA
Post Posted 10 Feb 2018 8:50 am     Reply with quote

IV - iv - I, key of G

String 4) 3——4E—-3
String 5) 3A—-4——3
String 6) 3B—-4——3
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Pete Burak


From:
Portland, OR USA
Post Posted 10 Feb 2018 9:38 am     Reply with quote

The other thing about E to Eb is that every time you engage that lever you are also playing the B6th tuning.
Add the B pedal and the 6th becomes a 7th.
For example you can play any swingy song like Route 66 or Choo Choo Cha Boogie.
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Gary Arnold


From:
Panhandle of Florida, USA
Post Posted 11 Feb 2018 12:06 am     Re: E to Eb/D# Reply with quote

Thanks every one, please keep the info coming. gka Very Happy
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Pete Bailey


From:
Seattle, WA
Post Posted 11 Feb 2018 8:48 am     Reply with quote

Richard Sinkler wrote:
Another way to readily identify where the e-d# minor is located is, if you have an Emaj chord with A&B pedals at the 7th fret, let off A&B lower the e's and move up one fret, there you have it. An Em.


Following on this idea, if you throw your knee the other way (assuming that's where your E->F change is) when you make this move you get a minor sixth instead of a vanilla minor.

Very handy.
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Ron Funk


From:
Missouri, USA
Post Posted 12 Feb 2018 3:28 pm     Reply with quote

Gary -

"Piggy backing" on above post:

8th fret with Eb lever engaged yields Em

By 'raking' to include the 7th string, that yields Em7 chord

Em7 contains same notes as a G6 chord.....the western swing 'Sixth Sound'

Remember the following?

Play G6 at 8th fret with Eb lever engaged and rake strings 8 thru 5 (must Omit 9th string when in this position)

Play C7 at 8th fret Open by raking stings 9 thru 6

Play D7 at 10th fret Open raking strings 9 thru 6

Take the above progression 'around the horn" a few times and you be playing "faux C6th" in no time.

Ron
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