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Topic: E to Eb Knee Lever |
Gary Arnold
From: Panhandle of Florida, USA
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Posted 6 Feb 2018 8:48 am
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Could I get some examples of using the E lower knee lever and why it's used. Maybe some history of this change. Thanks, gary
Last edited by Gary Arnold on 7 Feb 2018 2:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ian Rae
From: Redditch, England
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Posted 6 Feb 2018 1:29 pm
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You'll find it easier to understand if you call it by its proper name of E to D# lever. It's primary purpose is to supply the 3rd in a chord of B (the 5 chord if you're in E).
Historically, it was the first lever to be added. It lowered string 8 to D# and string 2 to D. Later when improved mechanisms permitted string 4 to be lowered as well, the two functions were separated and a different lever lowered 2 and 9. _________________ Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Chris Templeton
From: The Green Mountain State
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Posted 6 Feb 2018 1:34 pm
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I think the most common use is playing a 7th (dominant) chord two frets below the A & B pressed position, using the E lever with the B pedal.
I'd say the next common use is using it alone to play a minor chord. (B minor in open position). _________________ Excel 3/4 Pedal With An 8 String Hawaiian Neck, Tapper (10 string with a raised fretboard to fret with fingers), Single neck Fessenden 3/5
"The Tapper" : https://christophertempleton.bandcamp.com/album/the-tapper
Soundcloud Playlist: https://soundcloud.com/bluespruce8: |
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Erv Niehaus
From: Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 6 Feb 2018 1:55 pm
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I addition to using it to get a minor chord, I use it together with the B pedal to get a 7th chord.
I also use it together with both the A and B pedals to get a 9th chord.
Erv |
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Richard Sinkler
From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 6 Feb 2018 3:15 pm
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Isn't using it alone a G# minor chord? A 3 minor? _________________ Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Ian Rae
From: Redditch, England
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Posted 6 Feb 2018 4:32 pm
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Yes _________________ Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Tony Prior
From: Charlotte NC
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Posted 7 Feb 2018 1:09 am
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my premise is that you don't use the E to Eb, (or E to D#) at all and are wondering why it is on the Steel. It would really help in knowing where you are as a student of Steel Guitar. We are all students, even after 4 decades.
There are plenty of great players in Fl, it would be worth a couple hours drive to spend an afternoon with one of them to go over the basics . _________________ Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website
Last edited by Tony Prior on 7 Feb 2018 3:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Lyle Clary
From: Decatur, Illinois, KC9VCB
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Posted 7 Feb 2018 9:07 am
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The first pedal steel I sat behind belonged to a musician that played for group that I followed in my home town. I asked him what the knee lever was for and he said I think you can get a seventh chord with it. It was a single ten ShoBud. This pedal lowered 2 and 4.I played a chord pressing A and B and lowered the knee lever. He asked what I just did and I told him. He said he got the same change playing the 2nd string with the rest of the chord. Although I had never played a pedal steel before I gave him a lesson. _________________ 2006 Zum D10 8x8,1969 ZB Custom D10,
10 3x4 Peavey Nashville 112 Peavey LTD 400 2014 Zum Encore Wood Grain 4x5 Stage One pot pedal |
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Gary Arnold
From: Panhandle of Florida, USA
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Posted 7 Feb 2018 2:08 pm
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WE can all learn. I have been playing over 20 years. Thanks Tony for your input. I was wanting to know why it was put on the steel to begin with and I was looking to see if I could learn something new, I'm always looking for new moves. Like I said we can all learn. Thanks |
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Pat Chong
From: New Mexico, USA
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Posted 7 Feb 2018 6:26 pm
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Another easy move to throw in is bumping your e to d# lever before moving to another chord, as accent.................................................. |
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Kyle Everson
From: Nashville, Tennessee
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Posted 7 Feb 2018 9:02 pm
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Hi Gary,
The E to D# lever has many uses, but there are three important ones to consider (in no particular order):
1) As the major seventh in a chord. In open position (fret 0, without using your bar) this would be an Emaj7. The root is E.
2) As the 3 minor chord. In open position this would be a G#m. The root is G#.
3) As the 5 chord. In open position this would be a B major. By adding the 6th string, it becomes a Bmaj6. If you press the second pedal (B pedal), it becomes a B7 (dominant). The root is B.
More complicated chords can be obtained by adding pedal movements and other strings, and with chord substitutions, but these three root chords (or interval movements) are the basis for much of its use in the E9 tuning.
Hope that helps.
Kyle |
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Richard Sinkler
From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 8 Feb 2018 11:02 am
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Kyle Everson wrote: |
Hi Gary,
The E to D# lever has many uses, but there are three important ones to consider (in no particular order):
1) As the major seventh in a chord. In open position (fret 0, without using your bar) this would be an Emaj7. The root is E.
2) As the 3 minor chord. In open position this would be a G#m. The root is G#.
3) As the 5 chord. In open position this would be a B major. By adding the 6th string, it becomes a Bmaj6. If you press the second pedal (B pedal), it becomes a B7 (dominant). The root is B.
More complicated chords can be obtained by adding pedal movements and other strings, and with chord substitutions, but these three root chords (or interval movements) are the basis for much of its use in the E9 tuning.
Hope that helps.
Kyle |
I found with a lot of newer players (even with a few years under their belt) don't realize that the G#m can be played in place of the Emaj7. The 3 notes in the G#m are also in the Emaj7. You just don't have the root tone (E). Very pretty.
As to making a B chord open, it gives just the 1 & 3 notes of the chord unless you add one of the F# strings, but we all too often only play two notes of a chord. I use that combo (D# and B) a lot.
I only commented to make it a little clearer to a newbie. _________________ Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Bobby D. Jones
From: West Virginia, USA
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Posted 9 Feb 2018 11:27 am E to Eb Knee Lever
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I got out my Mel Bay Chord Chart and started seriously studying the D (E to Eb-D#)knee lever. Thanks for the inquiry, I used the D knee lever quit a bit but I even learned some things to work on myself.
Chord of E. Open strings E, 5th Fret D knee lever= E, At the 5th fret D Knee lever and Pedal B = E7th and at the 8 fret D Knee lever = Em. These can all be transposed as you move down the neck to other Chords.
Thanks again, for making me get out the chord chart. Now to the Wood Shed to work on some things. |
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Richard Sinkler
From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 9 Feb 2018 3:42 pm
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Another way to readily identify where the e-d# minor is located is, if you have an Emaj chord with A&B pedals at the 7th fret, let off A&B lower the e's and move up one fret, there you have it. An Em. _________________ Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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James Collett
From: San Dimas, CA
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Posted 9 Feb 2018 10:06 pm
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Richard, thanks for the reminder—I always forget that one. Usually when moving from major to minor of the same chord I stay in the pedals up position, then slide back two frets with B+C, which is a lot more cumbersome.
One thing I like about the E-D# pedal is the drones, relative motions, and counterpoints you can get in combination with the C pedal on strings 1,2, and 4. This gets especially cool when you have the String 2 raise to E as well. Here’s a basic lick that relies on that motion between strings 1 and 4, and can easily be elaborated on:
_________________ James Collett |
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Fred Treece
From: California, USA
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Posted 10 Feb 2018 8:50 am
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IV - iv - I, key of G
String 4) 3——4E—-3
String 5) 3A—-4——3
String 6) 3B—-4——3 |
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Pete Burak
From: Portland, OR USA
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Posted 10 Feb 2018 9:38 am
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The other thing about E to Eb is that every time you engage that lever you are also playing the B6th tuning.
Add the B pedal and the 6th becomes a 7th.
For example you can play any swingy song like Route 66 or Choo Choo Cha Boogie. |
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Gary Arnold
From: Panhandle of Florida, USA
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Posted 11 Feb 2018 12:06 am Re: E to Eb/D#
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Thanks every one, please keep the info coming. gka |
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Pete Bailey
From: Seattle, WA
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Posted 11 Feb 2018 8:48 am
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Richard Sinkler wrote: |
Another way to readily identify where the e-d# minor is located is, if you have an Emaj chord with A&B pedals at the 7th fret, let off A&B lower the e's and move up one fret, there you have it. An Em. |
Following on this idea, if you throw your knee the other way (assuming that's where your E->F change is) when you make this move you get a minor sixth instead of a vanilla minor.
Very handy. |
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Ron Funk
From: Ballwin, Missouri
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Posted 12 Feb 2018 3:28 pm
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Gary -
"Piggy backing" on above post:
8th fret with Eb lever engaged yields Em
By 'raking' to include the 7th string, that yields Em7 chord
Em7 contains same notes as a G6 chord.....the western swing 'Sixth Sound'
Remember the following?
Play G6 at 8th fret with Eb lever engaged and rake strings 8 thru 5 (must Omit 9th string when in this position)
Play C7 at 8th fret Open by raking stings 9 thru 6
Play D7 at 10th fret Open raking strings 9 thru 6
Take the above progression 'around the horn" a few times and you be playing "faux C6th" in no time.
Ron |
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