| Author |
Topic: Copedent |
Russell Adkins
From:
Louisiana, USA
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Posted 25 Jan 2018 6:44 pm |
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| what would be a simple copedent on an 8 string pull release with three peds and two knee levers? Dosent have to be e9 or a c6, just something that music can be played on ? |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 25 Jan 2018 8:00 pm
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What style of music do you want to play?
_________________
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. |
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Russell Adkins
From:
Louisiana, USA
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Posted 25 Jan 2018 8:43 pm
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| maybe some pop and new age styles , just something different |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 25 Jan 2018 9:30 pm
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When pedal steel is used in pop music it's usually E9. In my opinion pop music does not usually go into the jazz realm.
If you had said jazz or swing music, then you would want a C6th type copedent, which can be done with 8 strings and 3X2. You would drop the equivalent of the normal P4 altogether, and the equivalent of P8 would be on a knee lever. That would give you the ability to play all of the normal C6th tuning, EXCEPT you would not have the bottom two strings.
I don't know what new age music is. I guess I'm too old for that.
I have no personal experience with a pull release guitar but a basic E9 tuning minus either the top two strings, or the bottom two strings would probably work. I'd personally drop the bottom two strings. Those chromatic strings on top are more important in my opinion than the bottom two strings. The floor pedals would be standard E9. One knee lever would raise both Es to Fs, and the second knee lever would lower the eighth string from E to D#, and also lower the second string from D# to D. You could play a lot of music with such a tuning.
_________________
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing.
Last edited by Paul Sutherland on 25 Jan 2018 10:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Russell Adkins
From:
Louisiana, USA
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Posted 25 Jan 2018 10:10 pm
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| Thanks for the comment Paul New age music is mostly instrumental , some of it is beautiful some is weird , you are most likely right about e9 that's probly what I should go ahead and use . |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 25 Jan 2018 10:50 pm
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I used to have this very nice C6th tuning on a Rickenbacker 8-string.
You could ignore P1, and put P5 and P6 on knee levers.
_________________
-๐๐๐- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Russell Adkins
From:
Louisiana, USA
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Posted 27 Jan 2018 4:32 pm
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| What kind of music would you play with this Bob? can you get chords and harmonized scales ? |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 27 Jan 2018 9:20 pm
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| Iรขโฌโขm not Bob, but from the looks of his chart, every diatonic chord in any major key can be played at one fret with this copedent, including major7, minor7, dim, add9, and dom 7ths, which seem to be as popular in New Age music as they are in any other genre. Most chords seem to be only one pedal away too. I can see that a harmonized major scale in sixths could be played on strings 7 and 4. Iรขโฌโขm sure there is a lot more. Pretty cool setup. |
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Russell Adkins
From:
Louisiana, USA
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Posted 28 Jan 2018 6:49 am
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| Fred , after looking at it a while I did find some harmonizing scales. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 28 Jan 2018 9:15 am
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| Russell Adkins wrote: |
| What kind of music would you play with this Bob? can you get chords and harmonized scales ? |
It's a standard C6th. You can play anything on it.
The "kind of music" isn't dependent on the tuning. It's dependent on the selection of notes, which comes from your brain. You can play any kind of music on any copedent*. Certain complex chord voicings may be impossible in a copedent, but I've never seen one that couldn't play all of the major, minor and diminished triads, which are all you need for 3-part harmony.
Consider that you can play any 2-note harmony on a lap steel (any tuning), but some 3-note chords might be missing. Pedals were invented to get beyond this limitation.
*Certain "licks", especially in country music, require specific pedal changes. You can always play different licks and still sound "country", though.
_________________
-๐๐๐- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 29 Jan 2018 9:09 am
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Here's the C major chord scale on C6. "b" means use a pedal that lowers (flats) the string 1 half-step.
| Tab: |
C Dm Em F G Am Bdim C
E _____________________________________________
C __0___2___4___5___7___9____11___12___________
A _____________________________________________
G __0___2___4___5___7___9____11b__12___________
E __0___2b__4b__5___7___9b___11b__12___________
C __0___2___4___5___7___9____11___12___________
A _____________________________________________
F _____________________________________________ |
On the Rickenbacker I had the 1st string tuned to D, but actually a low F is more useful. Here's a subset of the standard C6th copedent that you could use:
| Tab: |
p1 p2 p3 k1 k2
E +F
C +D -B
A +B
G -F#
E -Eb
C +C#
A
F +F# -E |
_________________
-๐๐๐- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Russell Adkins
From:
Louisiana, USA
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Posted 29 Jan 2018 5:15 pm
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| Thanks Bob , very kind and helpful of you to post this ,.got it all copied down , Ill let you know how it works out for me , thanks again. Russ |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 29 Jan 2018 6:04 pm
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Which knee levers does the guitar have?
LKL = Left knee moving left
LKR = Left knee moving right
RKL = Right knee moving left
RKR = Right knee moving right
_________________
-๐๐๐- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Russell Adkins
From:
Louisiana, USA
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Posted 29 Jan 2018 6:20 pm
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| LKL LKR |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 29 Jan 2018 9:46 pm
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In that case...
| Tab: |
LKL p1 p2 p3 LKR
E +F
C -B +D
A +B
G -F#
E -Eb
C +C#
A
F +F# -E |
It would be better if the levers were on different knees so you could use them together. Ideally the C to B change would be on your right knee, because that's where it is on most D-10's.
_________________
-๐๐๐- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Russell Adkins
From:
Louisiana, USA
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Posted 29 Jan 2018 10:37 pm
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I thought it might be best to have everything on one leg right?
It did seem the thing to do in my arrangement with the peds and knees. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 29 Jan 2018 10:55 pm
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Not really. If you only have 2 levers, it's better to have them on different knees so you can use them together. It gives you more options.
Check this out:
| Tab: |
>>> <<<
p1 p2 p3 LKR RKL
E +F
C +D -B
A +B
G -F#
E -Eb
C +C#
A
F +F# -E |
You can use both levers together (A9th), and since you're pushing them in opposite directions the guitar won't tend to move sideways.
You could also put them on LKL and RKR. It's traditional to have the C to B change on the right knee.
_________________
-๐๐๐- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Russell Adkins
From:
Louisiana, USA
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Posted 30 Jan 2018 3:46 pm
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| Well shucks , I can add another lever if needed since I already got the first two made and installed on the guitar . I can see how it would be better now that you mentioned it . Ok for this guitar as an 8 stringer what in your opinion would be the ultimate setup ( I can add anything ) ? Setup being the ped and knee arrangement? |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Jeffrey McFadden
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 30 Jan 2018 9:33 pm How to read tabs?
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b0b, I can read your copedent charts but I don't understand what the tabs are telling me.
Can you explain, or post a link to instructions? I hope I'm not just uniquely stupid.
_________________
Well up into mediocrity
I don't play what I'm supposed to.
Home made guitars |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 30 Jan 2018 11:13 pm
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I hope I understand your question.
| b0b wrote: |
Here's the C major chord scale on C6. "b" means use a pedal that lowers (flats) the string 1 half-step.
| Tab: |
C Dm Em F G Am Bdim C
E _____________________________________________
C __0___2___4___5___7___9____11___12___________
A _____________________________________________
G __0___2___4___5___7___9____11b__12___________
E __0___2b__4b__5___7___9b___11b__12___________
C __0___2___4___5___7___9____11___12___________
A _____________________________________________
F _____________________________________________ |
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Each horizontal line is a string. The numbers are frets. The "b" means use a pedal that lowers (flats) that string.
For example in this tab, you see a lot of flats on the middle E string. There's a pedal that lowers E to Eb. "2b" on the E string means go to the 2nd fret and use that pedal.
I used this method (similar to Jimmie Crawford's MuSymTab) because we are discussing different copedents. On a D-10 that pedal is P6, but on my Rick it was P3 and on the one I was suggesting it's P2.
_________________
-๐๐๐- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Jeffrey McFadden
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 1 Feb 2018 9:19 pm
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| b0b wrote: |
I hope I understand your question...
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You understood it perfectly and answered it clearly. I understand. Thank you.
I suppose you could put a # behind a fret number to illustrate raising the string?
_________________
Well up into mediocrity
I don't play what I'm supposed to.
Home made guitars |
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