all pull adjustment problems on an older Mullen

Peter Leavenworth · From: Madbury, New Hampshire, USA

I'm relatively new to all pull adjustments and I find my recently acquired Mullen PRP falls out of adjustment fairly easily - I don't mean simply tuning, I mean ability to tune.
It's in a large room with my woodstove, which may be part of the problem, but that has never even put my Emmons push pull guitars out of tune. I've only had it for a few months and played it a lot, while I suspect it hadn't been played in a while previously.
So I'm looking for confirmation that if the parameters of the changer adjustment are insufficient to keep the tuning "in the ballpark", I believe I need to change the rod connection on the bell crank to a lower hole to increase the throw of adjustment, right? Why would the present bell crank position have worked for a while - and then not?
In addition, when I've wildly cranked the adjustments on one string around trying to get the raise or lower correct, it seems to have affected other non-adjacent strings that had previously been tune-able - how could that happen? Like working on my car, I have learned over the years to ask questions before I start messing around around under the hood.
_________________
2008 Zum D-10, 1996 Mullens PRP D-10, 1974 Emmons D-10, 1976 Emmons D-10, early 70s Emmons GS-10, Milkman Sideman head w/Telonics 15" speaker, 1966 Fender Super Reverb, 1970 Fender Dual Showman head, Wechter/Scheerhorn and Beard Dobros, 1962 Supro lap steels, Gibson 1939 RB-11 banjo, Gibson 1978 RB-250
banjo......and way too much more

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

The single most important thing you must do is to make sure that all the fingers at the endplate --- where the nylon nuts are --- are fully released and resting on their stops. They cannot (at rest) be suspended by the nylon nuts.
If this requires backing off on the nuts (unscrewing them until the finger is not being contacted), do so.

Then it's time for the next step involving choosing the hole in the rod puller (bellcrank) or changer and/or adjusting the pedal/lever stop to allow more movement (not always an option).

But first, make certain that the nylon nuts are not overtuned. This can affect other strings.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Seconded. And I like the way you worded that, Jon.
I'll try to remember that wording, or something like it.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Peter Leavenworth · From: Madbury, New Hampshire, USA

Thanks Jon and Donny for the great advice and thanks Jon for the subsequent posting on overtuning corrections. When I said I was making wild adjustments, I did realize that I was sharping the string w/o the pedal so I backed off until there was no movement. I've made that same adjustment on all strings so all fingers are properly at rest.
On further inspection I see that the fingers of the changer are not completely returning to the correct at rest position on a couple of strings, even with the nylon tuner completely disengaged so I've started a lubrication regimen of all related parts. At this point it's just the 2nd and 3rd string not returning, and I will re-attach the pull rod to lower holes in the 3rd string bellcrank. However, the RKR/crossbar that lowers both D#s a half step does not want to let the changer finger return to it's at rest position because of a lack of spring (or string) pressure so I may disconnect the lower D# to see if that makes a difference.
_________________
2008 Zum D-10, 1996 Mullens PRP D-10, 1974 Emmons D-10, 1976 Emmons D-10, early 70s Emmons GS-10, Milkman Sideman head w/Telonics 15" speaker, 1966 Fender Super Reverb, 1970 Fender Dual Showman head, Wechter/Scheerhorn and Beard Dobros, 1962 Supro lap steels, Gibson 1939 RB-11 banjo, Gibson 1978 RB-250
banjo......and way too much more

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

I've had the overtuning tutorial about 80% done for a couple of years. Your post finally got me off my duff to finish the last couple of graphics and get it online. I thought about and then abandoned the idea of talking about return springs. A whole nuther subject but it is important.

Obviously, get in touch with Mullen and get replacements for missing or worn springs.

Here is something I did with my Sho-Bud with a worn, non-adjustable spring on a lower that was not returning well:

I took a good spring from a string that did not need any lowers---the 3rd string in this case. I installed this spring where I needed it and with very thin bare wire in place of the spring I tied the 3rd string so that it could not move (lower). I can't remember where I got the stuff but it may be sold as "bus wire".

Dan Beller-McKenna · From: Durham, New Hampshire, USA

Hey Pete, why don't you bring that Mullen by this weekend. Not that I think I know what's up with it, but I am pretty used to all-pull steels and might notice something.

Mike Mantey · From: Eastern Colorado, USA

The travel and/or the slack must be there first and foremost, like mentioned. There is one other major factor, which sounds very likely to me, that perhaps someone tightened the collars on the cross rods too tight. On these older guitars there is a lock collar on each cross rod that prevents it from having too much slop from front to back. My guess is you don't have any slack in one or more cross rods. You should have some movement from front to back or it will bind the cross rod causing this trouble. I've seen where people just tighten them all the way up and as soon as the body swells a little it locks the cross rod. The newer models all have what is called a floating cross rod which will automatically adjust itself. Highly recommend the front to back slack test. If you cannot get it going feel free to contact us.
_________________
Mike Mantey
President and C.E.O.
Mullen Guitar Co., Inc.
(970) 664-2518
sales@mullenguitars.com
www.mullenguitars.com

Peter Leavenworth · From: Madbury, New Hampshire, USA

Thanks Mike, I just ordered some new tuning nuts and return springs from you folks but I will check the crossbar adjustment first. That very well may be the problem since I tightened the existing return springs to no avail.
Pete
_________________
2008 Zum D-10, 1996 Mullens PRP D-10, 1974 Emmons D-10, 1976 Emmons D-10, early 70s Emmons GS-10, Milkman Sideman head w/Telonics 15" speaker, 1966 Fender Super Reverb, 1970 Fender Dual Showman head, Wechter/Scheerhorn and Beard Dobros, 1962 Supro lap steels, Gibson 1939 RB-11 banjo, Gibson 1978 RB-250
banjo......and way too much more

Don Christy · Posted 29 Jan 2018 6:50 am

I have one of the older Pre-Royals and had the same problems.

What I did was buy all new springs, new Grover tuning nuts and nylon cross shaft bushings from Mike at Mullen.

Mike said the #9 spring for the knee lever RKR is a little stiffer because to get the feel for the half stop it needs tension. On all the fingers that lower certain strings you tighten the spring tension just enough where the finger comes back and hits the stop. You might have to experiment with these tensions by using your knee lever to see if the fingers are hitting the stops.

This finger spring tension goes for all your raises too. There are a lot of variables I found out. Some of them is the cross shaft collar being to tight against the side causing friction and tightness. Wore out cross shaft nylon bushings that are on the end of the cross shaft. (Mine were wore out and I replaced them and 2 cross shafts didnt have those bushings)

Wore out finger assembly steel rod..the steel rod that all the fingers pivot on. (My steel rod had deep marks where some of the fingers pivot caused the groves over a certain period of time.) I replaced the shaft/rod and checked the inside diameter of the finger hole to make sure it was still round and not egg shaped.

Sometimes the fingers in the older Mullens might get bent and cause friction and bine up causing your tuning to be off.

If I replace any pull rods or bell cranks for some reason I might have all my nylon tuning nuts off their threaded shafts with the spacers. When I get the change done I open tune first and then I take the spacer and put it on... then thread the tuning nut up to the finger. When my tuning meters needle moves or my strobe starts to move I back off 3 turns on the tuning nut. I then take my strobe and tune the string like it should be.with the pedals down or the knee lever in.

Hope this helps since I have had my 1994 Pre-Royal completely apart 4 times now since I had mine. Just make sure the cross shafts have a drop of oil in all of them where the bushings are and make sure the fingers have a drop too.

Peter Leavenworth · From: Madbury, New Hampshire, USA

Thanks a lot, Don, I just got my initial pack of replacement parts from Mullen and I'll be ordering more. I only ordered the springs I thought I needed but I think you're right, I should just replace them all. I haven't had a chance yet to check out the cross bar bushings but those will likely be part of another order. The bracket where the fingers come back to rest is not at all grooved; like I said I think this guitar wasn't used a lot - I believe Damir said it's a '96 or '97. This all-pull work is making my p/p Emmons look even more reliable than I thought but those steels have been set up by Tommy Cass - so no wonder.
_________________
2008 Zum D-10, 1996 Mullens PRP D-10, 1974 Emmons D-10, 1976 Emmons D-10, early 70s Emmons GS-10, Milkman Sideman head w/Telonics 15" speaker, 1966 Fender Super Reverb, 1970 Fender Dual Showman head, Wechter/Scheerhorn and Beard Dobros, 1962 Supro lap steels, Gibson 1939 RB-11 banjo, Gibson 1978 RB-250
banjo......and way too much more

Forum Index > Pedal Steel		Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic

All times are GMT - 8 Hours	Jump to: