Jazz standards on non-pedal steel

Dom Franco · From: Beaverton, OR, 97007

I am taking the next step to expand my Jazz repertoire on steel guitar.
For the last 10 years or so I have been learning the great American Songbook, (tin pan alley, big band swing, show tunes etc.)
But recently I have been attending a real "Jazz" jam. (where they use charts, play in Eb and Ab keys with brass instruments and play compositions like "Black Orpheus" and "Blue Bossa")
I am very sad to say that I often get lost reading Jazz charts. The 1st and 2nd endings, d/s al Coda... chord extensions, jazzy hand notation.
Still I have had enough success and encouragement by musicians and audience to spur me on to continue my quest.

I have learned to dumb down the chords on the fly, (some fast tempos kill me) and since a non-pedal steel is not particularly suited to play Ab7#11 and D-7b9 I am looking for some more simple work-arounds. I know just enough music theory to be frustrated.

HEY JAZZ STEELERS! Any help would be appreciated.

I am looking for perhaps some rules to implicate complicated chords with 2 or 3 notes, chord substitutions
(I know a 7th is a partial diminished, and an augmented triad works as a minor flat 5)

thanks
Dom
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Bill McCloskey · From: Nanuet, NY

Well, I'm sure more knowledgeable folks like Mike Neer can weigh in, but extended chords are just sign posts of the available notes to play. You don't have to play them all. Instead of looking at Ab7#11 you can just play the Ab7th chord. and just improvise using a simplified pallet of Ab, Bb, C, Eb, the 1 , 2, 3, and 5 of the scale which is what jazz teachers like Jerry Bergonzi recommend to beginning improvisers.
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Einar Baldursson · From: Stockholm, Sweden

You might also try playing a Bb major triad over the Ab7(#11). It gives you 9-#11-13. Should work for comping as well. No 3rd or 7th and although these are usually thought of as the most important ones it sounds about right to me. If there's enough time (slow tempo or more than one bar) try combining Ab and Bb major triads melodically. It gives you all the colors of Ab Lydian Dominant except the b7. 1-2-3-#4-5-6 which means you can also use this concept over an Abmaj7(#11) if you get hit by one of those. So basically a major triad a whole step up from whatever #11 chord you're playing should do the trick. (if you really really need that b7 just make it a Bb aug. triad b7-9-#11)
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Stefan Robertson · From: Hertfordshire, UK

Good question - the core of our tunings offer some complex alternatives:

Rules:
Strongest notes to suggest the chord or sound (this may vary per situation/application)

USUALLY
3rd, 7th, and then whatever extension are the strongest tones of a chord
All Chords can be expressed as triads for reharmonisation purposes.
The melody Note is the most important
and the lower notes can be altered/subbed for reharmonisation

eg. C7#11 = E, Bb, F#

LESS COMMON in Jazz but used in Jazz Steel playing by Morrell/ Emmons and Jernigan

6th and 9th chords are often suggested by playing:
Root, 5th and 6th = C, G, A

Lesson advice:
I have transcribed in my tuning 2-5-1 chord subs

Frank Vignola teaches you 90 on TrueFire - worth it. As it will show you the strengths and weaknesses in your tuning.

Always remember ALL chords can be suggested with 3 notes and sometimes it is not always the standard 3rd and 7th and extension.

IF you do get the course we can go through it together as I have now to get them all under my fingers but have transcribed it plus many more.
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Stefan Robertson · From: Hertfordshire, UK

Steve Lipsey · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

Take the chart and, in advance, circle all the 2-5-1s that appear (or just 2-5s). Over the 2-5s, you can choose to just play 2m or just play 5(7); you don't have to make every change in order to sound appropriate. (This is what Pat Martino did, for example, turning minor 7ths into dom9 chords; Buddy Emmons picked it up from Pat.)

(By the way, be sure to spot the MINOR 2-5-1s (i.e., 2m7b5 - 57 - 1m) too; that's everywhere in Black Orpheus.

Second tip is that, many charts (esp. Real Book) have extensions written into the name of the chord but only because the melody uses that note. Once you start soloing, that extension or color tone becomes optional and you can fall back to the basic version of the chord (e.g. instead of G7#11, you can just play as it if were G7.)
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David DeLoach · From: Tennessee, USA

I play archtop guitar in a big band, and I think the approach to rhythm guitar used in big bands would translate to what you are experiencing.

For example, the picture below is of a section of a fast moving chart. On bars 80-83, I'd simplify the chords to be either plan old dominant 7ths, minor 7ths, or major 6ths. The horns are taking care of the upper extensions (the 9ths, 11ths, and 13ths). Also, the top two treble strings don't see a lot of action with big band comping - guitarists tend to stick to 4, 3, 2, or even 1 note chord voicings (Google Freddie Green's technique). Most big band guitarists I know follow this practice. It sounds good and is a heck of a lot easier!

Also, it helps me a lot if I can get a hold of the chart before the gig and think thru the most efficient way to voice the chord changes vs. having to come up with it on the fly. Here's a video us our band playing the song in the chart below --> https://youtu.be/YQ-08A1N1sA

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Dom Franco · From: Beaverton, OR, 97007

Thanks everyone for some great tips! I am making some progress. I have found some cool 2 and 3 note voiceings that are easy to grip with my 13 string tuning. The light went on when I realized I don't have to play full chords as charted.

Practicing with some youtube Jazz backing tracks for Blue Bossa and Black Orpheus, I am having a blast.
Thanks again.
Dom
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Paul Seager · From: Augsburg, Germany

Dom, strange that you mention 'Blue Bossa'. As I mentioned in other threads, I am taking lessons on upright bass and my study piece this week is 'Blue Bossa'. Now I'm not great on those weirder chords but I'm learning new scales to cope with e.g., G7b9. (I'll let Stefan Robertson tell me what it's called but it runs G,Ab,B,C,D,Eb,F).

Anyway, I diverse: I decided to try play the chord sequence on Steel and as I have "my own" tuning, created to cope with Maj7, Dims and such like, I was keen to hear what came out with 'Blue Bossa'. In short, it sounded horrible! Although the chords were (mostly) harmonically correct, it just didn't sound right on Steel. So I switched over to the C6 neck and using a couple of slants for the D-7b5 and G7b9, occasionally using just partial voicings, it sounded as if that is how the song should be played an a Steel.

I don't have sufficient time left in this world to bring my Steel playing to a level of going to a jazz session but the lesson I learned from this exercise is:

I'd love to hear updates of how you progress, Dom.

\ paul

Stefan Robertson · From: Hertfordshire, UK

[quote="Paul Seager"...Now I'm not great on those weirder chords but I'm learning new scales to cope with e.g., G7b9. (I'll let Stefan Robertson tell me what it's called but it runs G,Ab,B,C,D,Eb,F)....
\ paul[/quote]

Been busy.

I'd call that chord G11(b9b13) but there are many different names available and uses.

(G)-B-(D)-F-Ab-(C)-Eb

Notes in. brackets are optional depending on the voicing.
7b9 chords are also dim7 chords in disguise.
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Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
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Mike Neer · From: NJ

Dustin Rhodes · From: Owasso OK

Who was the non-pedal guy out of KC that was a jazzer who was really good at rhythm? Maybe even used Leon McAullifes E13 tuning.

Mike Neer · From: NJ

Dustin Rhodes · From: Owasso OK

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

David M Brown · From: California, USA

Guy Cundell · From: More idle ramblings from South Australia

Dom, Iâ€™ve not much to add to all the good advice above except maybe position playing is a useful strategy that hasnâ€™t been mentioned. Standards are generally constructed from a small number of harmonic building blocks but with many keys and modulations. The ability to move through the changes without big shifts on the neck is an advantage and having some alternative positions makes the job easier.

For myself in A6, I have three home positions for both major and minor keys and try to work through harmonic blocks/cadences in each one, eg I-V, I-IV-V, ii-V-I in major and minor and also the cycle of 4ths in dominant chords.

Itâ€™s a long road but the journey is enjoyable and I donâ€™t think there is ever an â€˜arrival pointâ€™.

Also, while major scales and modes can be difficult without open strings, for a bit of â€˜flashâ€™, symmetrical scales like wholetone, diminished (alternating whole and half tones) and eight note dominant (alternating half and whole tones) can be useful and are not that hard on a 6th tuning.

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

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