Fender 1000, advice on lubrication please

Nathan French · From: California, USA

Hi all,

Iâ€™ve got a Fender 1000 that is in good working order except one string has developed a stickiness to it. When I raise it, it comes back down a cent or two sharp. If I push on the finger underneath it goes back to tune. There is also a squeak coming from the changer for that string. All I did was change that string, dunno why itâ€™s acting up all of a sudden.

I was hoping someone could give me advice on how to lubricate the insides with the least amount of dissassembly. I havenâ€™t taken the changer area apart before and was hoping to avoid it (too many projects in the garage right now).

I have a can of CLP which I could shoot up in there from the underside. Any better ideas?

Dean Severson · From: Minnesota, USA

You can use a 'needle oiler', which directs the oil carefully to points you need. (I wouldn't suggest spraying stuff underneath). I know Williams guitar company sells a little needle oiler. Others might too.

Nathan French · From: California, USA

Thanks for the reply.

After posting I browsed around a little (haven't been lurking here lately) and saw this thread about a Fender 400 with similar issue. The recommendation was cable guides to reduce the lateral pull on the fingers.

I started looking around under there to figure out how I would do that and noticed the steel plate was missing a piece:

It's that 3rd string that's having issues returning after a raise. It's hard to see but at least one more of those slot strips is cracked.

I think I understand a little more about this design now. That plate has those slots to support/protect the fingers against lateral force. The cables all wrap around a pulley at the far end of the instrument so the lateral forces aren't large (except for the knee lever I added on, you can see the sharp angle there).

I'm not entirely sure what to do about this. Obviously I need to re-route my knee lever cables. And lubrication may help.

Are cable guides really going to help? I don't know what those traditionally look like. If anyone has an example that would be helpful. I could machine something that is sort of like a large comb with appropriate spacing and install that over this (roughly between the slots and the screws on the right).

But after all that I'm wondering... this all happened after replacing a .022 wound string with a .020 plain string. Just pulling on the finger by hand I can tell the tension is very light compared the other fingers. Maybe I just need a heftier string there? It's a short scale so I can't just use a stock E9 set, I roll my own.

Sorry for such a long monologue, but if you have any thoughts I'm all ears.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Yes, going to a lower gauge can easily screw things up. A smaller gauge string requires more movement in the changer. And, if that finger where the guide plate is broken is pulled too far, it may hang up or cause even more damage. Also, in most things mechanical, if it squeaks - oil it!

Lastly, those homemade cable parts are pulling at too great an angle. That will likely cause more things to break if left that way. (It looks as if someone made a crappy attempt at adding a knee lever?)

Nathan French · From: California, USA

K Maul · From: Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL

First,donâ€™t use oil! Use teflon dry lube. Oil attracts dust and creats sludge. Have you cleaned your changer with naptha/lighter fluid? You would be best served by taking it apart and soaking then flushing. Well...you CAN flush with it assembled and blow it with compressed air,but you wonâ€™t get as much crap out.
Also the pulley at the key head end should be cleaned and ideally dissassembled and the discs polished. That will end 90% of the return problems.
_________________
Kevin Maul: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Decophonic, Evans, Excel, Fender, Fluger, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing.

Nic Neufeld · From: Kansas City, Missouri

I think I posted the other thread....

Ended up working out ok. I did the naptha bath followed by dry Teflon lube...spent a 3 day weekend doing that off and on, and it paid off in the end...no return issues at this point.

I'd recommend finding Jim Sliff's guide on lubrication and maintenance (Basil H directed me there), and if you want specific guidance you can join the Fender Pedal Steel group on Facebook, lots of helpful people there to be sure.

I'm pretty sure my gauges were initially too light, too...combination of factors. If you have a really well tuned and lubricated system with absolutely minimal friction, you can probably have light gauges but a bit of extra tension on a heavier gauge helps muscle through a slightly sticky changer, perhaps.
_________________
Waikīkī, at night when the shadows are falling
I hear the rolling surf calling
Calling and calling to me

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

Glad the guide helped.

Oil - any type of oil - can cause problems on a Fender or any pedal steel unless the instrument is regularly and carefully cleaned/maintained, something most players just don't seem to find time to do.

Unless oil is periodically flushed out it *will* break down and thicken, plus collect dust, dirt and hair. Naphtha is reasonably safe for solvent flushing - a high flash point (meaning fumes are unlikely to ignite) and it doesn't affect finishes or plastics.

Chemical-resistant gloves and eye protection should be worn and it's best to flush things outside, but those precautions apply to any solvent use.

It's important when buying Teflon ("PTFE") lube that only the "dry" type be used. There are both dry and oil-based versions of Tri-Flow, Blaster PTFE and a few others, and the oil types will cause the same problems as any other oil.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Nathan French · From: California, USA

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

It's hard for me to say, Nathan. I don't know exactly when the damage occurred. (Possibly before you owned the guitar?) The only way that plate would break would be if there was some sideways torque placed on the pulling fingers, and under normal playing conditions, there is very little of that. At any rate, most of the sheet steel mechanical parts on the Fender guitars were case-hardened (for improved resistance to wear). Those hardened parts are more likely to crack or break than they are to bend if they see undue stress.

Many of the old Fender cable steels saw modification by their owners, and the one I have now had about 30 holes in the bottom of the body when I bought it, so I know that many parts were added and removed before I got it. Whoa!

With only normal care and an occasional light oiling, these guitars are very trouble free.

Nathan French · From: California, USA

Well I sorted this issue out and it surprisingly had nothing to do with the changer at all. What was happening was the cable splitter parts from the A and B pedals were interfering with each other. So when I pressed the A pedal down it would release to a slightly different position. When the B pedal was moved the A pedal cable would then slip back to its original position.

The fix was simply to unhook the B pedal cables from the changer and re-route it on a different slot on the main pulley so the cables won't rub each other.

Not sure why I only noticed this after the string change. I vaguely remember noticing some tuning issues on that string when I first set it up.

Thanks for the help and suggestions!

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

The cables should enter and leave the large pulley in a very specific order:

First pedal - closest to guitar body
Second pedal - next

....and so on, with the last pedal (depending on how many you have) the furthest from the body at both the entry AND exit points. Cable routing is critical to smooth pedal action, changer function and proper return-to-pitch.

The cables should never cross over each other at the pulley. All pulley discs should also spin freely when no cables are installed. If discs are stuck together or don't move freely the pulley needs to be dismantled, cleaned, possibly de-burred and for sure lubed - only with dry Teflon lube. Never use oils on these guitars or you'll,end up with a gummy, sticky mess full of hair and dirt.

If you join the Facebook Fender Pedal Steel page you can download a complete maintenance guide form the "files" section.

Oh, and BTW - there really aren't "A & B" pedals - those are E9 specific, not guitar-specific, and many Fender players use different copedents. Many of us try to just use numbers for more "universal" clarity.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional

Nathan French · From: California, USA

Jim,

I had figured things crossing and rubbing would be a bad thing. I wasn't aware the exact order mattered. The 1st pedal was routed at the top of the pulley and I've now moved it to I think the 5th rung down on the pulley.

I'm not sure there's a way to route those 1st two pedals with that copedent on adjacent pulley rungs without having this issue. I need to look at the back of the pulley and see if cables are crossing in a bad way -- I can see how that would be a bad thing.

I don't Facebook otherwise I'd be all over that. I need to make some pedals for raising/lower the E's. I know I could hook up some pedals to do that (pedal 4 already is lowering E's) but I'd much rather get the hang of knee levers. If you have photos of other people's lever additions that might help me along.

Thanks for the advice!

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

Nathan French · From: California, USA

Thanks for the lengthy and very clear explanation Jim. I think the root problem in my case is the splitters are all on top of each other. Because of that, moving the cable lower on the pulley made enough clearance for them to not rub/catch. I hope that makes sense. The nylon guides are a great idea. I don't think I need them now but when I add pedals it will help.

The discs seem to all be spinning freely, at least on the pedals I'm using.

I think the correct solution would be to resolder the splitters such that they were spread out more and couldn't touch. Then I can move the cables to be in correct order on the pulley.

I started poking at the back neck while I was under there. I'm not real sure what to do with that neck. I have it tuned to an A6 tuning and I don't really want to learn 2nd copedent (I can barely get around on E9) so I just hooked up a pedal to pull the C#'s to C's (to get a minor chord) and now I have something I can chord on easily. Probably won't get much use on that back neck. I wanted a single neck but this is what fell into my lap Smile

.

Thanks for all the help.

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

By "splitters" do you mean the small pulleys?

Even of those are on top of each other I'd try setting up the large pulley correctly to see if there's a difference. As long as the small ones don't bind on each other you should be OK.

You can also create "lifts" for cables of small pulleys to keep them off of each other. some use self-adhesive velcro fabric (even several layers on top of each other), screen door slides, all sorts of things - go to a hardware store, walk around, don't thin "guitar" but just think "what do I need to accomplish" and you'll find all sorts of solutions.

Red Rhodes used barn door hinges as knee levers; Sneaky Pete, I and many others used whatever we could find to create guides, stops and whatever else we needed.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional

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