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Topic: Having problems adjusting my Zumsteel Hybrid. |
John Lacey
From:
Black Diamond, Alberta, Canada
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Posted 13 Dec 2017 10:57 am |
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| The big problem for me is not quite understanding the nuances of this guitar. Yes I understand the basic tuning methods for the primary raises, but things get sticky when I want different settings for the 3rd. and 1st. pedal settings for the 5th. string. I’ve followed some advice from Lynn Stafford (thanks Lynn) but I need further detail to fully nail down my understanding of this guitar. What is the role of the brass tuners? My guitar has these rods installed on the 5th. string: 1. Hex tuner above tuning window 2. Nylon tuner with blue paint 3. Brass tuner 4. Brass tuner. I’ve messed with all of these nuts and now my guitar’s sort of doing what I want, but now the upper hex nut #1 no longer affects the tuning. What are the roles of these components and how do they interrelate? |
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Danny Letz
From:
Old Glory,Texas, USA 79540
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Posted 13 Dec 2017 11:30 am
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| John here are some things that might help. First of all, the metal tuning nuts are factory set and you don't adjust them in your normal tuning. They are part of the Hybrid mechanism. So if you have moved them, my advice would be to call Bruce and get him to tell you how to get them back where they should be before you do any more. Otherwise I think your other adjusting will be in vain. When you have a Franklin pedal, you can no longer use the split screws on those strings. So he has provided the double rod method of tuning the splits on them. Those are the blue nuts. The black nuts are return and temperament compensaters. The red nut on the 9th string tunes your half stop on string 2. After you get the brass nuts back in adjustments, I may be able to answer more specific questions. If so , send me a pm. |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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John Lacey
From:
Black Diamond, Alberta, Canada
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Posted 13 Dec 2017 12:51 pm
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| The info that Lynn told me included using the brass nuts to separate the tunings of the 1 and 3 pedals. He didn’t say that I couldn’t touch them although I’ve heard that before. Does anybody have any experience manipulating the brass nuts or are they just taboo? |
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Bobby Boggs
From:
Upstate SC.
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Posted 13 Dec 2017 1:33 pm
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Jerry Jones wrote this a few days back. Saved me some typing.
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Tune the max raised notes at the key head.
Tune the open notes with the row of hex head screws just above the the nylon nuts.
Lowers and secondary raises are tuned as normal with the nylon nuts.
Brass hex nuts at changer end should not be adjusted. |
Now if you bought your guitar 2nd hand. The brass tuners may need to be adjusted-tuned. Some folks fiddle with them and get them out. If their not right? You'll never get the changer to do what it's supposed to do. I've set down to several where the owners had them tuning just like a non hybrid would. And that's a waste.
Your Max pulls,-brass tuners should pull snug against the stop. The only hard part can be timing them to bottom out together. Example strings 5 and 10 a whole step. 3 and 6 a half. 4 and 5 a whole step. Bruce pre timed them when built. But again, sometimes folks turn things they shouldn't. Plus set-ups get changed etc. Day to Emmons etc.
No way I can out tech Lynn. So be sure you understood his advice. I would start by backing off all the nylons tuners making sure they're not touching the changer fingers at all. Then check to make sure the brass tuners are not engaging the changer fingers at all. When no pedals are applied. Then re tune from scratch as instructed.
Hope this helps. |
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John Lacey
From:
Black Diamond, Alberta, Canada
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Posted 13 Dec 2017 2:02 pm
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| Thanks Bobby, I’ll give that a try when I get back to my guitar. I was wondering about a zero point. |
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Jerry Jones
From:
Franklin, Tenn.
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Posted 13 Dec 2017 3:38 pm
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The Zum Hybrid has fixed pedal stops and adjustable "at rest" stops (at changer end). The raise note is adjusted at the key head and the "at rest" note is adjusted with the cap screws just above the nylon nuts.
If you can't adjust the "at rest" note, you either do not have enough pedal travel (adjusted with pedal back slack screw) or the brass nuts have been overtuned. I don't use the back slack screws and just let the weight of the pedals take the slack out of the pull train.
It also looks like some raise fingers contact the body when fully raised. If that's the case, the finger contact and fixed petal stop should be properly timed. Maybe that's what Lynn was referring to.
Once set up, a tweak at the keyhead is all that's needed.
Hope this is correct.....
Here is a link to the original Zum Manual.... I'll look for the Hybrid page.
https://www.steelguitar.com/manuals/ZumSteel_Manual.pdf
_________________
Jerry Jones
Last edited by Jerry Jones on 14 Dec 2017 5:46 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Danny Letz
From:
Old Glory,Texas, USA 79540
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Posted 13 Dec 2017 4:29 pm
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| I didn't know you and Lynn had discussed the brass nuts. There has to be some initial setting that Bruce uses. In normal use you shouldn't have to adjust them. I think mine is a 2010 and I've never had to touch them. I'm sure that wear, changing copedents, maybe changing string gauges and such things could cause them to need adjustment. That's prolly why he made them adjustable. Call Bruce,you won't find a nicer guy. |
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Ron Pruter
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 13 Dec 2017 8:31 pm
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For posterity, it would be nice if someone who has the official manual version of these instructions, to make them available to us here on this thread. Myself and quite a few others, consider me a steel tech and this sounds very confusing. RP
_________________
Emmons SKH Le Grande, '73 Fender P/J bass, Tick tack bass, Regal high strung, USA Nashville 112. |
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Bobby Boggs
From:
Upstate SC.
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Posted 13 Dec 2017 9:45 pm
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What Jerry Jones posted is right on as far as I know. However,If a guitar has been re-roded. And the person did not re-rod using the same bellcrank and changer holes for each specific maximum pull, As was set up by Bruce. Then, there will be problems. I mean if you were off by only one bell-crank hole.It might still work. But not as good as it should. Nothing and experienced tech couldn't figure out. But for all others, you'll need a roding chart.
Hope that makes sense. Lynn Stafford is the only certified Zum tech that I know of. Perhaps he has access to Bruce's master chart for setting up the maximum pulls. If not, you can call Bruce. Just don't tell him I said to call. He's a great guy and very helpful. But trying to retire.  |
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Per Berner
From:
Skövde, Sweden
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Posted 13 Dec 2017 10:54 pm
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Unfortunately, the manual provided with the Zum Hybrid is very sketchy. That's a shame, considering the extremely high quality of the guitar itself.
In a moment of brainfreeze, I once managed to move a couple of the brass nuts before realizing I shouldn't have gone anywhere near them, but by pure luck it seems I got them back to their original positions. No info at all in the manual about those nuts. |
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John Lacey
From:
Black Diamond, Alberta, Canada
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Posted 14 Dec 2017 8:21 am
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| Lynn and I had a second conversation last nite and I feel a little more informed. He asked me some pertinent questions like did I use a different type and gauge strings from factory and had I changed the bellcrank settings from factory. Well I use GHS Boomers and no I hadn’t touched the setup but perhaps the previous owner had. So he said he would send me a rodding chart to check it. He also restated I should check the finger travel with a screwdriver to make sure it raises properly to pitch. He also suggested putting a drop of Loctite on any brass tuners that have come loose. I’ll check all of this out over the next couple of days. |
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Ron Pruter
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 14 Dec 2017 9:15 am
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Thanks Jerry Jones. How did your post of the manual get ahead of mine?
_________________
Emmons SKH Le Grande, '73 Fender P/J bass, Tick tack bass, Regal high strung, USA Nashville 112. |
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Bobby Boggs
From:
Upstate SC.
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Posted 14 Dec 2017 4:49 pm
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| Quote: |
Thanks Jerry Jones. How did your post of the manual get ahead of mine? |
I'll go out on limb and say he used the Edit feature. 
Thanks Jerry. |
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John Lacey
From:
Black Diamond, Alberta, Canada
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Posted 17 Dec 2017 10:11 am
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| Well guys, had a chance to put the old girl through the paces this weekend with 2 gigs and she held up quite well. No overt out of tuness with the 5 th. string ( or any string or pull for that matter. Next project is to remove the 4 th. and 8 string pulls for the C6 th. to free up the pedal feel on the 4 th. Franklin pedal as recommended by Lynn. Small question. How does one remove the pull rods from 4 and 8 string? Simply crank the tuners at the changer end until the rod’s free then disconnect the cotter pins holding the rods onto the bellcrank? |
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Jerry Jones
From:
Franklin, Tenn.
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Posted 17 Dec 2017 10:19 am
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My 4th pedal feels fine but I only drop 5 and 10 plus the changes on C6th. You might try backing out the nylon nuts on 4 and 8 C6th and see how that changes the feel. You can remove the rods at a later date.
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Jerry Jones |
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John Lacey
From:
Black Diamond, Alberta, Canada
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Posted 17 Dec 2017 10:24 am
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| Well guys, had a chance to put the old girl through the paces this weekend with 2 gigs and she held up quite well. No overt out of tuness with the 5 th. string ( or any string or pull for that matter. Next project is to remove the 4 th. and 8 string pulls for the C6 th. to free up the pedal feel on the 4 th. Franklin pedal as recommended by Lynn. Small question. How does one remove the pull rods from 4 and 8 string? Simply crank the tuners at the changer end until the rod’s free then disconnect the cotter pins holding the rods onto the bellcrank? |
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Lynn Stafford
From:
Ridgefield, WA USA
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Posted 17 Dec 2017 1:19 pm Zumsteel Hybrid
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| John Lacey wrote: |
| How does one remove the pull rods from 4 and 8 string? Simply crank the tuners at the changer end until the rod’s free then disconnect the cotter pins holding the rods onto the bellcrank? |
John,
You really don't need to disconnect the pull rods (unless you really want to). There's always a chance you might loose track of them. You could just back off on the tuners until the raises don't occur and leave the rods in place. You might want to tune in the C6 side again for some reason in the future. The raises for strings 4 and 8 are "primary", so most likely the tuning nuts will be those brass ones that may be stiff (because of the blue Loctite). If so, just ease them off gently with your wrench.
_________________
Best regards,
Lynn Stafford
STEEL GUITAR WEST
http://www.steelguitarwest.com
Steel Guitar Technician (Restoration, Set-up, Service and Repair work)
Previous Emmons Authorized Dealer & Service Technician (original factory is now closed)
ZumSteel Authorized Service Technician
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John Lacey
From:
Black Diamond, Alberta, Canada
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Posted 17 Dec 2017 1:24 pm
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| Thanks Lynn. I’ll try that. |
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John Lacey
From:
Black Diamond, Alberta, Canada
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Posted 25 Dec 2017 9:32 am
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| So I released the brass nuts on the 4th. and 8th. string on the C6th. and that freed up a lot of movement and improved the feel on the 4th. pedal. As the 5th. and 6th.and 10th. strings on the E9th. were not lowering all the way down a full tone I adjusted those with the split screws. The guitar is now lowering all the strings needed for the Franklin change and I’m starting to experiment with my new (to me) change that actually goes to pitch. |
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