The various E13 tuning choices for 10-string lap steel

Jack Hanson · From: San Luis Valley, USA

I have an old 10-string Gibson that's currently strung for C6 that gets precious little playing time. I'm contemplating setting it up for E13. Would a 22.5" scale instrument be conducive to E13?

I have read about the Morrell tuning, the Jules tuning, the McAuliffe tuning, Boggs, West, etc... Can anyone explain the similarities and differences, and the strengths and weaknesses of the various E13 tunings?

What variation would be the most natural for a guy like me to slide into (pun intended). I'm most familiar with the standard 10-string pedal steel E9, the 6-string C6-based tunings, and the high bass 6-string resonator tunings.

Tom Cooper · From: Orlando, Fl

Here is what I have ended up with after lots of debate:
B D E F# G# B C# E G# F# .
It's Morrell tuning with top two string reversal to be like familiar pedal steel, and low B instead of E. I could drop he B down to E if I had to. So far liking the low B. I do a lot of classic country type stuff, but also trying to learn swing and jazz. The G# where it is on top keeps my Don Helms parts, the rest is familiar E9 grips and 6th chord. I think I will be with this for a long time. Just got a ten string. Want to live in one tuning for a while.

Stefan Robertson · From: Hertfordshire, UK

Bill McCloskey · From: Nanuet, NY

Ultimately the tuning doesnâ€™t matter. A 6 string dobro tuning will let you play any kind of music you can think of, and give you more to practice to last a lifetime. The problem is not the tuning, the problem is being musical in your tuning of choice . As much as steel players think the perfect tuning will allow them to play everything, the fact is steel guitar will never replace a piano. Just as a piano will never replace a trumpet or a sax. Pick a tuning . Learn how to make music on it. And screw the rest. Chords are nothing but possible harmony notes to be played against the melody. It can be achieved in 2 notes as well as 4 or 10. For my ears steel guitar is and always will be a melody instrument, where itâ€™s unique ability to mimic the human voice gives it its power.

Stefan Robertson · From: Hertfordshire, UK

Stefan Robertson · From: Hertfordshire, UK

Bill McCloskey · From: Nanuet, NY

I did say that. About 10 years back, when I was playing dobro and lap steel I also jonesed to play trumpet. Which I then proceeded to do for the next 5 years, eventually playing flugelhorn in a jazz band in Manhattan.

That was because I wanted to play jazz and for me, jazz is all about the brass and reeds.

But none of that has anything to do with what I said. If you need to play a certain repertoire, you are a western swing player who is required to play Boot Heel Drag every night, that is going to indicate your tuning. If you are in a very traditional country band, you are going to have to play pedals. And you are going to be asked to play the solos exactly the way they appear on the record.

But if you just want to play music, certainly tuning doesn't matter. If it did, Rob Ickes and Jerry Douglas wouldn't be playing jazz. If you are trying to replicate the past, you are confined to how the past played it.

If your goal is to be a musician, you can achieve that with any tuning. This obsession with tunings, and how many straight bar chords you can play is a waste of time. Your time is better spent learning the tuning you have and figuring out how to make music on it. When I played trumpet, I never played two notes at the same time. But I certainly played chords.

My brief interest in pedals was about adding some additional effects, not some additional chords.

Bill McCloskey · From: Nanuet, NY

"f Buddy and others agreed with that pedal steel guitar wouldnâ€™t exist. "

The reason why pedal steel exists or any instrument for that matter, has nothing to do with musicality or being a musician. Do you think that if Buddy Emmons wanted to play music on a dobro, he couldn't make brilliant music on it?

Stefan Robertson · From: Hertfordshire, UK

Bill McCloskey · From: Nanuet, NY

"
Boot Heel Drag in the Key of F instead of E or any other key is still Boot Heel Drag."

Not really. Most traditional bands are going to play traditional songs in the key they were written in and a band is not going to accommodate the steel player. The steel player needs to be able to play the tune in the original key. If you are playing bootheel drag every night , or sitting in with a band, you are most likely going to be playing 8 strings in A6 or C6 tuning. Just like fiddle tunes are played in certain keys. If you play dobro, you are going to play those tunes in the key that they are traditionally played in. If you join Asleep at the Wheel, you aren't going to be playing Boot Heel Drag in F.

Not sure I understand your point about Reece and a waste of time. It is never a waste of time to learn the tuning you choose backwards and forwards. Reece's tuning is really just an extension of C6. And you can play any tune traditionally done in C6 on it.

Bill McCloskey · From: Nanuet, NY

BTW, Stefan, I used to be where you are. Tried every tuning under the sun. Ultimately, I found the endless search for the perfect tuning fruitless. For me:

1. If you want to play bluegrass: get a 6 string dobro and put it into GBDGBD tuning.
2. If you want to play western swing, get an 8 string and put it in A6 or C6 tuning (or get two necks one for each.
3. If you want to play country, get a 10 string Pedal Steel in E9th tuning.

And if you want to play jazz, rock or other non traditional forms of music, or you want to forge your own musical path: tuning doesn't matter. Pick one, learn it backwards and forwards and make music.

For me I only play the following;

1. on 6 string, I'm going to be playing GBDGBD, regardless of acoustic or electric guitar.
2. If I play 8 string, I'm going to be playing a G6 tuning, whether it is acoustic or lap steel.
3. I recently ordered a 12 string super slide and I'll put Reece's tuning on it, but mainly so I can play any C6 stuff.

People waste years fooling around with tunings that they should be putting into being a better musician.

Stefan Robertson · From: Hertfordshire, UK

LOL. Fair enough Bill.

I'm actually surprised that key is that important to you at least. I know for sure that anyone of the 12 keys if it sounds good the audience/band won't care.

Also I used to have to change keys based on the singer's range all the time when I played guitar.

I will just agree to disagree as I believe that you should be able to play anything you want on a single tuning.

Lest we forget before there was pedal ALL steel was non-pedal. Thus a lot of country and Western swing was forged on it.

You can play Dobro based songs on any competent tuning as its just a major chord repeated. (really not all that much to it) - R, 3, 5.

But I get your point that for many the search is fruitless and they could have spent their time practicing instead.

Everyone has their journey and thank goodness Emmons, Anderson and Many others wasted many years with tunings as they are the ones we remember the most.

Those who dare to dream as opposed to those who just follow.

Anyway much love to you and enjoy your journey whatever/wherever it may take you. Very Happy

_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com

"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist"

Bill McCloskey · From: Nanuet, NY

Accompaniment is certainly a different thing, and part of learning your instrument is being able to play in any key. That is different than playing signature songs that contain signature licks.

And no, you can't play dobro based licks on any competent tuning. Smile

In fact many signature dobro licks can only be played in certain keys. You can't play certain G licks in any other key without capoing. They are unique to the dobro and G tuning.

But I agree with one statement; "Anyway much love to you and enjoy your journey whatever/wherever it may take you."
You as well. keep sliding.

Jack Hanson · From: San Luis Valley, USA

Thanks for the lively discourse, gentlemen. Lots of information to ponder. In the meantime, I'll have to figure out what variation I will use to start out, and order the appropriate gauge strings (if necessary).

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

Congrats, gentlemen! I thought this one was going over the precipice, but you dialed back. To me the big diffie is in the density of interior intervals. If you're like careful & sensitive and real, real accurate about "grips" E13 will reward lush chordish-style. But the close intervals take a lot of slants out at the starting gate, I just don't "need" to play minor 9ths, on a steel guitar? And if you're at all prone to... ahem... BLASTING AWAY at the thing, I think the open-er voicing of the 6th tunings este muy better. The "I can get EVERY chord!" mentality on 6-strings may be kinda drizzling over to steel?

The other rap is, "You don't need the root, the bass player will get it." Uh-oh - WHAT BASS PLAYER?!? Is he hiding under the furniture again... oh. I IS the bass player dammit.Yes you maybe CAN get all the color notes, but minor seconds sound mighty weird in the bass. It's (eliptically) all Ted Greene's fault.

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