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Topic: Does anyone play without an amp directly to the input of PA? |
Kristen Bruno
From: Orlando, Florida, USA
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Posted 20 Nov 2017 5:31 pm
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Does anyone play their steel directly from a effects processor to the PA system without using an amplifier?
Thanks
K _________________ "Technology has given us the ability to repeat all the mistakes we have learned from history, but much faster, deadlier and with much greater accuracy" - KAB |
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Kevin Fix
From: Michigan, USA
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Posted 20 Nov 2017 6:22 pm Pa
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I thought of it a couple times but the thought scared me. I did not want to sacrifice the voicing that my NV112 has. I only use the EQ settings of my amp. I use a Delay Pedal now and then and a Do Bro simulator also. |
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Bobby D. Jones
From: West Virginia, USA
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Posted 20 Nov 2017 7:36 pm Does anyon play without an amp directly into the PA
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When I played in a band and Used a rack with TubeFex and amp. I had a plugin in my rack box direct to the PA system. It worked well, Another steel player liked to use my amp when on a venue together. You would have to have a good sound man to work with to get the steel in the monitors till it would give the steel presence on the stage, You would lose all control your amp would put into the tone of your steel without it being in the loop. |
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mtulbert
From: Plano, Texas 75023
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Posted 21 Nov 2017 5:53 am
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I always go direct into the mixing board. Most amps and preamps today have a direct output which gives you the signal right before it goes to your amplifier stage. All the tone controls work and you can certainly get the tonal settings you want. Now I have never taken the steel itself directly into the board. That would be another adventure and would require a lot of work to get what you want and you are dependent on the sound guy.
If you have a direct output use that.
The main reason I do it is because you get a cleaner sound; ie no leakage from the other instruments into the mic. We try to keep our stage volume low and let the PA do the work. This helps a great deal.
Here is a video with almost everything going directly into the board.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5wYeUGZlZg
Hope this helps. _________________ Mark T
Rittenberry Laquer D10, Rittenberry Prestige SD10, Revelation Preamp,Revelation Octal Preamp,Lexicon PCM 92 Reverb, Furlong Cabinet |
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Jack Aldrich
From: Washington, USA
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Posted 21 Nov 2017 9:55 pm
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I do it a lot, especially if I'm doing a one night gig. I tell the sound guy to mix me flat with a reverb set at 3 of 10. It works ok. _________________ Jack Aldrich
Carter & ShoBud D10's
D8 & T8 Stringmaster
Rickenbacher B6
3 Resonator guitars
Asher Alan Akaka Special SN 6
Canopus D8 |
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Darvin Willhoite
From: Roxton, Tx. USA
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Posted 22 Nov 2017 7:50 pm
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I did for about 8 or 10 years in a church band. I played through a Digitech 2112 for effects and used a Countryman direct box. We used Aviom personal monitor mixers and I loved it. My son was the front of house engineer and had been raised listening to steel guitar and knew how it was supposed to sound. That certainly didn't hurt any. Here is my basic setup, I used phase and distortion pedals so I could switch them in and out on the fly without having to use my hands. I used a Shure PSM600 wireless in ear system since I switched off to guitar or mandolin occasionally. The transmitter is in the rack, as well as an Audio Technica wireless guitar system.
_________________ Darvin Willhoite
MSA Millennium, Legend, and Studio Pro, Reese's restored Universal Direction guitar, as well as some older MSAs, several amps, new and old, and a Kemper Powerhead that I am really liking. Recently added a Zum D10, a Mullen RP, and a restored blue Rose, named the "Blue Bird" to the herd. Also, I have acquired and restored the plexiglass D10 MSA Classic again that was built as a demo in the early '70s. I also added a '74 lacquer P/P, with wood necks.
Last edited by Darvin Willhoite on 23 Nov 2017 7:40 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Dave Little
From: Atlanta
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Posted 23 Nov 2017 4:43 am
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Yes. From my effects boxes, I go to a DI box with 2 outputs. One side goes to PA - one side goes to channel 3 of this personal monitor:
https://www.amazon.com/TC-Helicon-VoiceSolo-FX150/dp/B00IGDHSLM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1511439995&sr=8-1&keywords=tc+helicon+voice+solo
I really like this little thing.
My voice goes into channel 1. This gives me "more me" without effecting the PA send.
The main monitor send goes into channel 2.
Now I have control of how I hear 1) my voice, 2) other singer voices and 3) my steel. What the audience (and the band) hears is controlled by the main board.
I mount it (with a drummer's clamp and part of a mike stand) to my steel's leg - pointed right at my face. You could just mount it on it's own mike stand. |
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Marty Broussard
From: Broussard, Louisiana, USA
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Posted 23 Nov 2017 7:38 am
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Kristen,
There’s allot of good feedback from everyone and I’d like to add some comments that I hope are helpful:
-if you don’t have a regular monitor man and front-of-house man working with you it’s a good idea to learn to speak to them about how you like certain frequencies to be adjusted because that’s what they TYPICALLY understand. Not ALL sound people are equal in knowledge and skill set so read on.....
-you could make several index cards with a sound curve showing them what you’re looking for—just in case they don’t understand frequency lingo. Laminate the index cards so they’ll last.
-what I’ve done more than anything is ask them to set it flat and then attenuate the Mids at 800Hz until I am good with it
-once you get the monitor correct ask the FOH guy to duplicate those settings as a starting point. The settings will likely differ if you’re playing through different monitors at each show....different brands, speaker sizes, speaker voices all make a difference.
There’s been a few times when I’ve had to tell them to take me out of my own monitor and I crank up my NV112 a little so I can hear myself. You wouldn’t have that fall back if you go direct.
We now have a regular guy who knows what to do but I still have to remind him occasionally about starting with the board flat etc.
Good luck!! _________________ RETIRED
"Technique is really the elimination of the unnecessary..it is a constant effort to avoid any personal impediment or obstacle to achieve the smooth flow of energy and intent" Yehudi Menuhin |
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John Sluszny
From: Brussels, Belgium
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Posted 23 Nov 2017 11:45 am
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Which preamp were you using in that video ? Sounds pretty good ! Thanks ! |
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Mitchell Smithey
From: Dallas, USA
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Posted 23 Nov 2017 3:43 pm
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I run direct on stage quite a lot. Always when I’m on a fly date. I use a Sarno V-8 give the house the xlr out and take an in ear mix. If they can’t give me a good in ear mix I take the line out and run it into my Presonus in ear amp and make my own mix. |
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mtulbert
From: Plano, Texas 75023
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Posted 23 Nov 2017 3:49 pm
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Thanks for the kind words
That is a Revelation preamp _________________ Mark T
Rittenberry Laquer D10, Rittenberry Prestige SD10, Revelation Preamp,Revelation Octal Preamp,Lexicon PCM 92 Reverb, Furlong Cabinet |
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Kristen Bruno
From: Orlando, Florida, USA
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Posted 25 Nov 2017 7:19 am
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Thanks for all the advice. And I am looking for future options when playing out. I have a nice boss effects unit and it is too huge to go under the guitar and use the built in volume pedal. In the future I may try placing it "away from the guitar". But then have to bring a separate volume pedal.
So right now what I tried using for band practice is my little 4 speaker Roland micro cube. I plug into the cube, set it for JC Clean with a little reverb and leave the EQ flat, and use the line out to the PA. Its a 1/4 inch line out, but it really sounds great. Unfortunately it mutes the sound from my amp when I do this, so a monitor will be needed in the future. I just started playing with band and are in "practice mode", so the monitor type options will be looked at for the future.
Thanks
K _________________ "Technology has given us the ability to repeat all the mistakes we have learned from history, but much faster, deadlier and with much greater accuracy" - KAB |
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Fred Treece
From: California, USA
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Posted 26 Nov 2017 12:58 am
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I use the pre amp models in a Boss GT10 with a Tech 21 Power Engine. I could go direct to PA from the GT, but relying on a sound guy for stage monitoring is too complicated. I run a Stage One volume pedal into the GT and keep the unit away from under the steel for the same reason you mentioned. |
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Damir Besic
From: Nashville,TN.
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Posted 26 Nov 2017 1:29 am
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I've done it a few times and loved it... I just have my monitor set up exactly the same as the house mix, that way I can get an idea how much of the steel guitar is going out.... I just had a sound guy add some reverb, and it sounded great... if I was working with a major artist using ear monitors, I'd most likely go directly into the board .... _________________ https://steelguitarsonline.com/ |
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Mack Quinney
From: Texas, USA
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Posted 28 Nov 2017 2:13 pm
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Most of the gigs I play we use my PA, so I don't bring an amp anymore. I use a Digitech GSP 1101 guitar processor for reverb and any other effects I might want, direct out the back with a XLR to the board. We have the ability to mix monitors however we want, so I have a little more "Me" in my monitor mix. I also play keyboard and I do the same thing except I go to a DI then the main board.
I've done this now for over two years and it works great for me. Also my back likes it!
Mack _________________ 76 Emmons Push Pull, Williams 600, ShoBud Pro I, MSA Classic, Remington SteelMaster dbl 8, MSA Super Slide dbl 8, Gold Tone 6, And other instruments and equipment I can't afford. |
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Fred Treece
From: California, USA
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Posted 28 Nov 2017 4:47 pm
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Guys...the OP is in a practicing band, not a road tour with a major artist. Homey probably doesn't have a board that can do 10 separate monitor mixes.
The sound of a guitar going direct to the board can get pretty thin and is tricky to set gain and volume levels, especially with a volume pedal in the mix. Let alone working out the tone.
A pre amp or multi fx unit with built in amp modelers of some sort makes the instrument sound less artificial and gives it some body, as well as affording the player some on stage volume and tone control for when the drummer starts taking things up a notch. That is why I prefer the multi-fx (with amp simulators) run into my own powered speaker over going into one of the PA monitors. |
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David Cubbedge
From: Toledo,Ohio, USA
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Posted 29 Nov 2017 9:41 am
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I did for a couple years with a top 40 country band and I found the experience not satisfactory. I used Shure ear buds, not sure of the model #, but they were $100 at Gtr Ctr. I found when playing alone as in sound check, I could get a sweet tone in my ears, but when the whole band started in things got bad, sometimes distorted. We had a Bluetooth system where I could adjust monitor settings via my iPhone, but there were times when the system would lose its' connectivity.
I was happy to get 'fired' from that outfit, reason being the lead singer couldn't hold his pitch with fretless instruments in the band! I think the real reason was money. Not to mention that current top 40 country has NO psg anyway...... _________________ Red Emmons D10 fatback #2246D with sweet Hugh Briley split cases, Black Emmons S10 #1466S, '73 Fender "Snakeskin" Twin Reverb, Peavey Nashville 400, Line 6 Pod XT, Fender 400, Fender Stringmaster Double-8, too many guitars, one bass! |
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Paul Stauskas
From: DFW, TX
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Posted 29 Nov 2017 10:41 am
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David Cubbedge wrote: |
Not to mention that current top 40 country has NO psg anyway...... |
This is simply not true but I don't want to hijack the thread so I will leave it at that. _________________ My site |
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