Author |
Topic: How does a Multi-Kord changer work? |
Greg Gefell
From: Upstate NY
|
|
|
|
Jim Sliff
From: Lawndale California, USA
|
Posted 26 Nov 2017 8:48 pm
|
|
It's a little different from the patent drawing. There is one connection on the bottom for each pedal; each pulls down one of 4 bars that run across spring-loaded levers that are connected to the strings
The bars have a pair of holes for each string; one for a raise and one for a lower. A bolt is inserted in whichever hole is to be used for that string and pedal. It's screwed down until the proper pitch change is reached.
Each pedal can raise or lower one or more strings. As I recall they're limited to half-step changes.
There are adjusting nuts on the bottom to assist with pedal height and travel.
That's most of it. Here's a picture of the top of the changer (before being cleaned up!)
_________________ No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
|
|
|
Stephen Williams
From: from Wales now in Berkeley,Ca, USA
|
Posted 26 Nov 2017 9:30 pm
|
|
It's a very interesting idea. Mainly because you can change the co-pedant by turning some screws.
I see no reason it can't have more than four bars. So for 6 pedals say and 4 knee levers say you would need 10 of the 1/4" square bars. Would take up a lot of space at the right end but I see no reason the bars and the changer fingers couldn't be set vertically. I think there was a steel guitar like this at one time. |
|
|
|
Greg Gefell
From: Upstate NY
|
Posted 27 Nov 2017 4:52 am
|
|
From what I know it seems that the short lived Fender 210 was a refined version of this type of changer concept.
What I really want to see is how the fingers pivot to achieve the raise and lower functions. It must be similar to the way a modern finger is able to reverse direction via a rivet pivot, but this design seems to do all of that up near the fulcrum rather than halfway down the finger. _________________ https://www.facebook.com/ggefell/ |
|
|
|
Jim Sliff
From: Lawndale California, USA
|
Posted 27 Nov 2017 11:56 am
|
|
There are some old threads about the Fender PS210 here and on my old Fender Pedal Steel Forum (now "retired" in lieu of the Facebook page - but still usable for research). As I recall it was quite different.
And yes, they can have more bars. The 6-pedal version has six.
The levers are essentially "fingers" and work in a scissoring action. Again, wherever (and how deep) you insert the bolts a lever will be pressed down, raising or lowering a string.
Fender cable pedal steels also have scissoring fingers but are very different in the way they work. _________________ No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
|
|
|
Chris Templeton
From: The Green Mountain State
|
|
|
|
Greg Gefell
From: Upstate NY
|
Posted 30 Nov 2017 6:25 am
|
|
Jim, do you have any photos of a disassembled changer from a Fender 800 or 2000? I want to see and understand how those scissors look and function - especially since they are double raise and lower. _________________ https://www.facebook.com/ggefell/ |
|
|
|
Kristen Bruno
From: Orlando, Florida, USA
|
Posted 30 Nov 2017 10:07 am
|
|
You might want to look at this video I made for a multikord a few months ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lClefP3a16U&t=513s
K _________________ "Technology has given us the ability to repeat all the mistakes we have learned from history, but much faster, deadlier and with much greater accuracy" - KAB |
|
|
|
Greg Gefell
From: Upstate NY
|
Posted 30 Nov 2017 3:09 pm
|
|
Thanks- but that doesn't show me how the fingers mechanically pivot and do what they do. Still looking for that video or animation. The video after yours dispels the idea that these can't be set up and played like a pedal steel though. Doesn't look too comfortable, but where there's a will there a a way.
https://youtu.be/FA0PXTJ1UGE _________________ https://www.facebook.com/ggefell/ |
|
|
|
Stephen Williams
From: from Wales now in Berkeley,Ca, USA
|
Posted 30 Nov 2017 4:46 pm
|
|
If you look at the link provided by the OP, you can see how it works by looking at the patent drawings. |
|
|
|
Jim Sliff
From: Lawndale California, USA
|
Posted 1 Dec 2017 5:17 pm
|
|
Quote: |
do you have any photos of a disassembled changer from a Fender 800 or 2000? I want to see and understand how those scissors look and function - especially since they are double raise and lower. |
Unfortunately no - but I'll ask around, You might also check with the gang on the Facebook Fender Pedal steel page. It's taken over from my now-inactive Fender Steel Forum. _________________ No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
|
|
|
Willis Vanderberg
From: Petoskey Mi
|
Posted 3 Dec 2017 11:38 pm
|
|
Greg. Just for your information the MultiKord can be played as a pedal steel and not just a chord changer. It requires both feet on the pedals. I played one for three years back in the fifties. My late friend Gene Mears was about as good as you could get on the Multi kord. He could play all the Ralph Mooney licks and also played a few of Jerry Byrds numbers. I can not remember about the lowers but you could get a double raise. It was very easy to play anything you could play on your modern steel using the A and B pedals. I had an eight string with six pedals. We controlled volume and tone with the right hand. At that time the E9th had not been invented yet. I used a variation of E turnings . Sometimes E 13th and sometimes E 7 th. Anyway it was an interesting time in my limited career....lol |
|
|
|
Jack Stoner
From: Kansas City, MO
|
Posted 4 Dec 2017 3:21 am
|
|
If I remember correctly Danny James told me he converted his to rods and got rid of the cables. _________________ GFI Ultra Keyless S-10 with pad (Black of course) TB202 amp, Hilton VP, Steelers Choice sidekick seat, SIT Strings
Cakewalk by Bandlab and Studio One V4.6 pro DAWs, MOTU Ultralite MK5 recording interface unit |
|
|
|
Don Drummer
From: West Virginia, USA
|
Posted 5 Dec 2017 7:00 pm Multy chord
|
|
I used a gibson multi chord using strings eight thru one like a ten string. It was easy to get an AB pedal set up with that changer system. It was called a Gibson Multi-Harp. I never could figure out how to lower string pitches however |
|
|
|
Greg Gefell
From: Upstate NY
|
Posted 6 Dec 2017 5:21 am
|
|
I don't ever plan to get a multikord and play one, my interest is in learning how it and the Fender 800 changers worked mechanically to achieve raises and lowers.
The steelguitar.com website shows animated drawings of push pull and all pull changers in action. I would really like to see that type of animation demonstrating the multikord changer and the Fender 800/2000 changer.
I looked at the multikord patent but my brain just cant process from the drawings how it actually pivots. I don't know if the Fender changers were patented and/or if there are any drawings/videos of their raise/lowering process in action to study. ?? _________________ https://www.facebook.com/ggefell/ |
|
|
|
Jim Sliff
From: Lawndale California, USA
|
Posted 7 Dec 2017 2:49 pm
|
|
Post the Fender question on the Facebook Fender pedal steel page. I know I have seen a GIF of the 800 changer before - that would be your best bet as cable-pull Fenders are the ONLY topic there!
I have never seen any "pivot" info for the Multi-Kord, as the only pivot is the one I described above. It'd pretty clear and simple if you have one in front of you. I don't know what to tell you as far as "abstract visualization" goes. I'm afraid you're on your own. _________________ No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
|
|
|
Greg Gefell
From: Upstate NY
|
|
|
|
Stephen Williams
From: from Wales now in Berkeley,Ca, USA
|
Posted 7 Dec 2017 7:29 pm
|
|
Greg, if you look at sheet 1 of the patent drawings press on pedal #39 pulls cable #37 which pulls on square bar #27 or #28. Each of those bars has holes for screws. If you put a screw in there when you press on the pedal the screw will push down on the finger.(see next paragraph)
Now on sheet 2 you can see the raise changer finger #18 which can be depressed by the bar #27 or #28. There is an axle #22 which goes through both raise and lower fingers.
On sheet 3 you can see the raise finger #18 and the lower finger #19. These actually are adjacent to each other. |
|
|
|
Charlie McDonald
From: out of the blue
|
Posted 8 Dec 2017 6:07 am
|
|
I could follow that, Stephen. These are old drawings and have some confusing things drawn such as to be more creatively descriptive and would be explained in the long long text.
The axle at 17 is the pivot about which the string receiver assembly 16 rotates. The assembly is held in place by a stud 23 on the lower finger, and the lever rotates about the main axle 22, forcing the pitch to raise [fig 9].
Lowering [fig 8], the stud moves independently of the raise finger and the string assembly rotates about the axle 17.
It's really ingenious, and the changers didn't have pitch drop.
The guitars had a lovely sound, maybe more mellow than PSG's, but very nice. |
|
|
|
Gloria Baldwin
From: California, USA
|
Posted 10 Apr 2018 8:29 am Multi Kord
|
|
Does anyone have an 8 string. 6 pedal. Multi Kord, with both covers and in overall very good condition?
Will buy outright or trade for a Sho Bud Maverick 3x1 with the natural birds eye maple. Great tone.Gloria
Pictures upon request.
Thank you kindly,
Gloria |
|
|
|
Greg Gefell
From: Upstate NY
|
Posted 10 Apr 2018 9:56 am
|
|
Gloria, you’ll get more views for your request if you post that in the “wanted to buy†section of the forum. _________________ https://www.facebook.com/ggefell/ |
|
|
|
Gloria Baldwin
From: California, USA
|
Posted 4 May 2018 12:34 pm Multi Kord
|
|
Thank you Greg. I posted there but no one answered.
Gloria |
|
|
|