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Topic: What makes a song a rag? |
Joe Burke
From: Toronto, Canada
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Posted 27 Sep 2017 7:50 am
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I suppose rag comes from ragtime? I suppose it needs to be an instrumental, and it needs to swing and be fast.
Am I right? Anyone have a good definition?
Thanks. |
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Barry Blackwood
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John Swain
From: Winchester, Va
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Posted 27 Sep 2017 9:01 am
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Not necessarily fast, listen to "the Entertainer" or "Maple Leaf Rag". I believe a true rag has 4 parts like the Troubadour's "Steel Guitar Rag".JS |
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Joachim Kettner
From: Germany
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Posted 27 Sep 2017 10:09 am
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I've always considered "Alice's Restaurant" to be a rag and it's not in a fast tempo. _________________ Fender Kingman, Sierra Crown D-10, Evans Amplifier, Soup Cube. |
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John Ed Kelly
From: Victoria, Australia
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Posted 2 Oct 2017 5:19 pm
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Joe Burke wrote: ''I suppose rag comes from ragtime? I suppose it needs to be an instrumental, and it needs to swing and be fast...''
*Rag does indeed come from ragtime
*I have not heard of a ragtime number with a vocal, that's not to say some one has not written one.
*Rags do not need to be fast (ie) ''Solace'' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOwachalNNw -A beautiful number, almost classical in performance. The ragtime pianists of the 19th-20th century were classically trained.
*A ragtime number is a multi-theme piece, quite often in multiple keys.
Rags can be played on any instrument, but specifically they were written for piano. Here's one played on guitar by Craig Ventresco: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJoUM-DsOKQ
Here's the Chris Barber band from the UK in the mid 1950s: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wu6yg0TnBY
And, here's Chris Barber and rhythm (he's playing the all the four trombone parts) with Cole Smoak: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqa1VxlX864
Finally there is Climax Rag (a fast piece) recorded by the George Lewis band in 1945: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJsJJUR5MC8 I have played this one many times in my other life as a clarinet player. It's a standard New Orleans tune.
P.S. I just thought of Ernesto Nazareth, a Brazilian composer. He never recorded as far I am aware, but a CD of his compositions is here on YT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5iMSgCg-s8 Nazareth was very much influenced by Scott Joplin, ans it's obvious in some the pieces on this CD.
Happy listening. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From: Louisville Ky
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Posted 3 Oct 2017 1:48 pm
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so...Mop Rag or M-O-P-P**** R-A-G-G, or R-A-G-G**** M-O-P-P, the Wills/Anderson 12 bar blues tune, would not be considered a rag? Or is it an inference to the style...maybe has nothing at all to do with rag or ragtime?...just coincidence concerning the word Rag? |
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Ian Rae
From: Redditch, England
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Posted 3 Oct 2017 2:35 pm
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"Rag" as a title has probably been used inaccurately to get attention just as "blues" has been.
Ragtime seems to have developed out of a syncopated march. Here is an example from the vast body of much-maligned work by Edward Taylor Paull, a contemporary of Scott Joplin who dealt in military two-steps. It's squarer than Joplin but has some of the same feel:-
http://merrittshillmusic.com/product/jol/the-jolly-blacksmiths/ _________________ Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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John Ed Kelly
From: Victoria, Australia
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Posted 3 Oct 2017 3:13 pm
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Jerry wrote: ''...so...Mop Rag or M-O-P-P**** R-A-G-G, or R-A-G-G**** M-O-P-P, the Wills/Anderson 12 bar blues tune, would not be considered a rag?...''
If you can post a link to this number I'll have a listen. If it is, as you say, a 12 bar tune, then it probably won't qualify. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From: Louisville Ky
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Posted 3 Oct 2017 3:18 pm
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https://youtu.be/ot4TBHn14WI
Johnnie Lee Wills and Boys. Written by Steel Guitarist Deacon Anderson.
The Ames Brothers version might be the best known. |
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John Ed Kelly
From: Victoria, Australia
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Posted 3 Oct 2017 5:07 pm
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''...Johnnie Lee Wills and Boys. Written by Steel Guitarist Deacon Anderson...''
Not ragtime...it's more like rockabilly. |
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Russ Wever
From: Kansas City
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