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Topic: Sho-Bud versus a modern steel |
Andrew Roblin
From:
Various places
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Posted 22 Aug 2017 5:44 am |
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After about 10 years playing classic Sho-Bud pedal steels--rack-and-barrel and two-hole puller models--I sat down yesterday and played a modern pedal steel.
It was made by one of our well-respected builders.
I brought along my own amp and volume pedal, so my impression wouldn't be colored by much other than steel itself.
This modern steel was covered in mica and had a humbucking pickup.
It sounded like mica-covered cardboard.
My birdseye maple Sho-Buds have their original, single-coil pickups, and they SING. They don't need a boutique amp to make them sing.
Not only that. My Sho-Bud--which is nicely set up, thanks to the generous advice of Sho-Bud players here on the Forum--played MUCH easier than the modern steel. (Though I should add that the modern steel needed a proper set up.)
Conclusion: Forty-five years ago, Sho-Bud made excellent instruments that, properly set up, still play well and sound better than some well-respected contemporary brands. |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Tim Russell
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 22 Aug 2017 8:29 am
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LOL - This sounds like a review that Bobbe Seymour is famous for from years ago, although instead of cardboard, I believe he referred to it as "tupperware! 
Either way, I like both - old and new.
You simply cannot beat that classic Sho~Bud sound, or Emmons either. I've owned both, and would love to have them back. That said, my recently acquired Williams sounds absolutely fantastic as well!
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Sierra Crown D-10 |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 22 Aug 2017 10:13 am
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I would agree.. Old wood body steels with single coils just sound nicer to me... However, does a Bud sound any better than other brands of its day??.. To me "if its wood its good"... bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 22 Aug 2017 11:13 am
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If you want the Sho Bud sound, you can get either a Sho Pro or a Jackson.
I've played both, and I think they both are excellent.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Brett Day
From:
Pickens, SC
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Posted 22 Aug 2017 12:08 pm
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| Mike Perlowin wrote: |
If you want the Sho Bud sound, you can get either a Sho Pro or a Jackson.
I've played both, and I think they both are excellent. |
I play a Jackson and I love it! Part of the reason I play a Jackson is because I'm a huge fan of Sho-Bud steels and the Sho-Bud sound |
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Jim Robbins
From:
Ontario, Canada
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Posted 22 Aug 2017 2:24 pm
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You can make a side-by-side comparison of wood vs mica / aluminum (although not old and new) if you listen to what is posted in this thread:
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=320455
Douglas Schuch posted the whole show, steel playing starts around 1:55 : https://livestream.com/musiccityroots/live/videos/161502647 . To me, they both sound great. That's not to say there aren't guitars out there that leave me cold.
I love wooden instruments & had a "The Professional" and liked the sound a lot, also the simple elegance of the mechanics (apart from the after-market knee levers), but when I brought home the Legrande III I got from Ed Ringwald, whoa! I could not believe how good it sounded.
Anyway, enjoy the comparison -- best thing is not to make up your mind and listen to it again. |
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Kevin Fix
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 22 Aug 2017 6:45 pm Sho Bud
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| I own a mica covered guitar and a Sho Bud Super Pro. No comparison to the Bud!!!!! |
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Dan Robinson
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 22 Aug 2017 9:55 pm
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Some folks think "R&B" means "Rythm & Blues." |
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Craig A Davidson
From:
Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA
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Posted 23 Aug 2017 5:53 am
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| Having owned both Mica and lacquer guitars. I prefer the wood ones. I have two Williams and one Bud with another on it's way. The Sho-Bud sound is my favorite. |
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Tom Quinn
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Posted 23 Aug 2017 4:49 pm
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I posted this elsewhere but for you Sho-Bud lovers, here's "some guy" playing one with another "some guy" on a push pull.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqQ7CMJypPg
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I need an Emmons! |
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Bob Muller
From:
Oregon, USA
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Damir Besic
From:
Nashville,TN.
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Posted 24 Aug 2017 3:52 pm
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no other guitar will have the Sho~Bud tone, no matter how old, or how much you pay for it ... it just wont happen ... some brands may get closer to the Sho~Bud tone then others, but none will have the warmth or resonance and overtones like original Sho~Bud ... same with Emmons ... after playing several hundreds of different steel guitars of various brands, I came to that conclusion... that is by no means saying that other steel guitars don't sound good, they just don't sound like a Sho~Bud ... so if you want the Sho~Bud tone, buy a Sho~Bud , not some other guitar that will sound "almost like" a Sho~Bud... again, same with Emmons ...
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https://steelguitarsonline.com/ |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 24 Aug 2017 8:14 pm
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I totally agree with what Damir just said. Sure a Showpro and Jackson; LOOK a lot like the characteristics of a ShoBud; not not even close to a Sho~bud sound...neither of them diecasted their endplates out of crappy metal...or the finger or the...well everything....all materials make up the All-together sounds.
Lloyd Green's LDG is the first LDG made. Mine is the second; and they don't sound the same. I put Dickie's LDG together and it is exactly made the same year; close to same month...but it sounded a little diff.
But all three of those LDG's sound JUST like a Sho~bud; but other guitars that look like them; don't sound like them.
Ricky
_________________
Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com |
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ajm
From:
Los Angeles
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Posted 25 Aug 2017 7:41 am
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| Bob Muller: Did you see Tom Quinn's post? |
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Damir Besic
From:
Nashville,TN.
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Posted 25 Aug 2017 8:47 am
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| Ricky Davis wrote: |
I totally agree with what Damir just said. Sure a Showpro and Jackson; LOOK a lot like the characteristics of a ShoBud; not not even close to a Sho~bud sound...neither of them diecasted their endplates out of crappy metal...or the finger or the...well everything....all materials make up the All-together sounds.
Lloyd Green's LDG is the first LDG made. Mine is the second; and they don't sound the same. I put Dickie's LDG together and it is exactly made the same year; close to same month...but it sounded a little diff.
But all three of those LDG's sound JUST like a Sho~bud; but other guitars that look like them; don't sound like them.
Ricky |
Ricky, I absolutely love Sho~Bud, and to my ear, the LDG is the best sounding of all Sho~Buds , I am not sure why, maybe single neck on the big cabinet has to do with the tone, but I never had LDG that wasn't a tone monster, love 'em ...
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https://steelguitarsonline.com/ |
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David Mitchell
From:
Tyler, Texas
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Posted 7 Jul 2021 6:52 pm
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Old thread but I have a Sho-Bud question and no need to start a new post on the same subject. I know Ricky Davis can tell me the answer.
I acquired last week from a local music store what I believe to be a 1975 Sho-Bud Pro ll Custom D-10 in mint condition because it has a 2 raise/1 lower changer, 2 hole pullers but no barrels, Gumby, dust catchers, wide pedals and square front. My question is isn't this guitar the same as an LDG of the same period but with a C6th neck? If not what is different about the LDG other than being a single neck? Would it sound more like Lloyd's without the rear neck? I've had tons of Sho-Buds, all models, but this is about, I think what I am looking for to get as possible to Lloyd's most recent instrumental tone. The rack and barrel Professionals I had would eventually break the little catch on the barrel spring which was problematic for me. I do like the 2 hole pullers which this guitar has.
Can someone tell me the changer configuration on Lloyd's LDG? If it's a first year it must not be a 3/2 changer. I also heard Lloyd's has a 24.25 string length instead of 24. Difference in tone?
Signed,
Confused in Texas |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 7 Jul 2021 7:32 pm
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Ok David; yes I can give you info. The very first year of LDG's (May, 1973 to May 1974); all have single/single changers with aluminum tops and barrel tuning. Lloyd's was that indeed; but he had changes done almost instantly to make it play and feel more to his liking. Basically the first year LDG was indeed same round front body and single/single barrel tuning system that was the first series "Pro~II".
Then Later 1974 shobud started adding a raise hole on 4th & 5th strings to affix the rod on the pullers with set screw; to go to Nylon Tuner at endplate rod. And that was about the time they started building the new Pro II pedal steel called "The Pro~II Custom" and went through many quick idea/changes and then was pretty much set in its new mech. which is indeed a double raise/single lower finger; but the finger top was a newly casted potmetal top that had a groove you hooked the string into; so bye bye "Pin"...and bye bye best sounding finger Shobud ever made with the aluminum top with pin you hooked string onto.
So if you don't have a pin then you don't have aluminum top like first year LDG...You have "The Pro~II Custom" and LDG's with the different fingertop that does not sound like fist year LDG's.
Yes Lloyd had the keyhead of his changed to a brilliant idea Paul Franklin Sr. had to help get rid of the over tones of 4th string and more tuning stability; by designing a Shorter keyhead. And Not many were made; maybe 10 to 20 of them...I actually have a pro II custom I'm restoring for a customer that has two of those short keyheads on it....yeeehaaa...extremely rare to find one...but that did lengthen the scale and a new special fretboad has to be made for that 24 1/2" scale and Lloyd has one. I have the Second LDG made and mine is standard barrel tuning 24" scale Sho~bud and you can hear mine on every (my ex-wife Miss Leslie albums and Weldon Henson albums) here's a video we did to promote a Weldon video and of course I'm played all the steel and produced and sang all harmony and am in the video...you can see and hear me play my LDG>
https://youtu.be/scaGSh9LxTA
Ricky
P.S. I have more answers to shobud questions nobody has heard; but you have to ask and then I'll tell.
Bless Paul Franklin Sr. as most didn't know that he did all the custom work and fixes for Sho~bud for many years until he started building his own pedal steel in late 70's. To me; Paul Sr. Harry Jackson and Duane Marrs were the brilliant minds behind Sho~bud.
Ok I'll stop talking now....ha....
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Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com |
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David Mitchell
From:
Tyler, Texas
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Posted 7 Jul 2021 8:10 pm
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| Thanks Ricky! You answered all my questions. Yes, mine has the slots instead of pins. I've had a few older Sho-Buds that had the pins. Even had a few pins bend and break off. David and Harry must have noticed that too and changed it with tone as a last thought. I've been playing an almost all aluminum EMCI so this Sho-Bud has to be much closer than the EMCI. I want the tone of both actually. The EMCI is more Emmonsy. Lloyd's tone is so huge and clear and of course his touch and technique in playing can never be duplicated by anyone. That's art and it's unique to the individual. Again, thanks for the lightning fast response Ricky and you sound great yourself friend! I've heard a lot of your recordings and you got it! Just like Lloyd!! Beautiful picken' Ricky! Lloyd's the one we all need to be more like. David |
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Rich Upright
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 7 Jul 2021 11:58 pm
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I have never been able to sound good on a 'Bud, but ILOVE the sound Lloyd gets on his LDG & I too have said the LDG is, IMHO, the best sounding bud.
My preference has always been aluminum necks.
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A couple D-10s,some vintage guitars & amps, & lotsa junk in the gig bag. |
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Tom Quinn
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Posted 8 Jul 2021 5:52 am
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This is one of the best sounding pedal steels I've ever heard, period. Of course, the operator has a lot to do with that. The guitar has more bite and "clank" than the typical 'Bud.
I need one of these suckers. I've owned a bunch of Sho-Buds but tested positive for push-pulls many years ago. Wonder if I could get an old Professional to sound like this?
Oh yeah, what was the amp on this gig? Thanks!
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I need an Emmons! |
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Frank Freniere
From:
The First Coast
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Posted 8 Jul 2021 6:57 am
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I'm not crying, you're crying! |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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John Castelletti
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Posted 8 Jul 2021 9:35 am
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Man, those all sound fantastic! Nice pickin' |
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Bobby Burns
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 8 Jul 2021 10:40 am
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| That’s great stuff there Ricky! |
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