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Author Topic:  Which goes first - phaser or delay?
b0b


From:
Northern California
Post Posted 10 Aug 2017 8:29 am     Reply with quote

I often use a phaser or a Rotosphere. I'm going to add a delay pedal. Which should go first in the signal chain?

I've always put the phaser or Rotosphere last. Would it mess up the effect to have a delay pedal after it?
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Carl Kilmer


From:
East Central, Illinois
Post Posted 10 Aug 2017 8:38 am     Reply with quote

I use delay and phaser or chorus most of the time.
The delay is always 1st. What a full sound.
Any effects I use, the delay is always 1st.
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Last edited by Carl Kilmer on 10 Aug 2017 10:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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Garry Vanderlinde


From:
Surf City
Post Posted 10 Aug 2017 9:25 am     Reply with quote

Delay, Reverb last before amp.

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Pete Woronowski


From:
Saskatchewan, Canada
Post Posted 11 Aug 2017 9:03 am     Reply with quote

I would also add that if your amplifier has an effects loop best to use your delay there and leave the other pedals in the front end of the amp.
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David Gertschen


From:
Phoenix, Arizona
Post Posted 11 Aug 2017 5:04 pm     Reply with quote

Most pedal manufacturers will say to always put the time-based effects last in the chain (delay, reverb).

That seems to sound best to me, but there is no definitive answer. It is whatever order sounds best to the player's ears.
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ajm


From:
Los Angeles
Post Posted 12 Aug 2017 6:06 am     Reply with quote

If it were me, I'd put the delay after the vibe.
If you were playing in an auditorium or the Grand Canyon, you'd hear the natural echo after everything else, right?

But as has been said numerous times, put them in the order that gives you what you want. For example........

I have one set up where I put a flanger after a delay.
This is a rock setting for a 6 string.
They are both in the effects loop of my amp, so they come after any distortion/OD.
The delay is set to 3-4 repeats at about 400-600 msec.
The flanger is set to a wide and slow jet plane type sound.
If you hit a chord and cut it off real fast, the delays get flanged in "steps" if that makes any sense. Each delay is at a different part of the sweep of the flanger. It gives it a great "descending into the depths of hell and doom" type effect.

Not sure where you'd use that in a country band or with a steel, but season to taste.

And.............

Far be it from me to question the motives or wisdom of the owner of the SGF, but is this topic in the right area?
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b0b


From:
Northern California
Post Posted 12 Aug 2017 8:22 am     Reply with quote

yikes! I thought I posted it in Electronics. Embarassed Moved.
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Alex D Smith


From:
California, USA
Post Posted 12 Aug 2017 10:14 am     phaser before the crunch Reply with quote

If you put a phaser before your distortion, or just in the front end of the amp, then you can get a sound like the engine of a 747. I fiddle around on lap steel w a dad rock group and we were playing White Rabbit. I just did some simple strums across the neck w phaser into a boss distortion--I thought it was an outre` sound. Phaser into echo pedal is automatically the Edge, which is great if you're into that.
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b0b


From:
Northern California
Post Posted 12 Aug 2017 10:18 am     Reply with quote

The engine of a 747 isn't the sound I'm looking for. More like Waylon Jennings. Laughing
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Ed Pettersen


From:
Tennessee, USA
Post Posted 12 Aug 2017 12:04 pm     Reply with quote

Phaser before tremolo before delay before reverb. For me, always. When I use a phaser <g>.
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Jim Smith


From:
Valley Ranch (north Irving), TX, USA
Post Posted 12 Aug 2017 12:36 pm     Reply with quote

b0b wrote:
yikes! I thought I posted it in Electronics. Embarassed Moved.

Haha, I was going to suggest that, but didn't want to question the b0ss! Whoa! Laughing Razz Rolling Eyes Winking
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Rick Abbott


From:
Indiana, USA
Post Posted 12 Aug 2017 4:25 pm     Reply with quote

b0b wrote:
The engine of a 747 isn't the sound I'm looking for. More like Waylon Jennings. Laughing



Man, that was funny!
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Brett Lanier


From:
Vermont
Post Posted 12 Aug 2017 6:03 pm     Reply with quote

I put the phaser immediately after the overdrive, before all that other stuff. Like this...



Sounds like this...
https://soundcloud.com/brettlanier/od-into-phaser-steel
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Len Amaral


From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
Post Posted 13 Aug 2017 6:39 am     Reply with quote

b0b, I have tried different Phasers and find if your looking for the Waylon vibe the MXR phase 90 has that softer rolling tone while others border on a flanger.

I haven't used Delay and phaser together so I can't comment what order they should be in.
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b0b


From:
Northern California
Post Posted 13 Aug 2017 10:06 am     Reply with quote

Len, I just got the TC Electronics Helix phaser and it is purrrrfect! Very Happy
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Len Amaral


From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
Post Posted 13 Aug 2017 3:42 pm     Reply with quote

Haven't tried the TC Helix. I always used the MXR Phase 90 as a benchmark. I'll have to try one.
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b0b


From:
Northern California
Post Posted 13 Aug 2017 4:31 pm     Reply with quote

This is the effects setup I used today.

Parametric EQ Arrow distortion Arrow phaser Arrow delay.

Everything is true bypass, and I rarely use more than one effect at a time.



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Fred Treece


From:
California, USA
Post Posted 14 Aug 2017 8:21 am     Reply with quote

Another vote for everything before delay and then reverb here. Whatever you send into the delay gets delayed before it repeats. So if you happen to be picking a fast passage into a delayed phaser, the notes might come out "unphased".

Your setup looks good. You could try putting the parametric after the overdrive, unless you are using it to eq your un-Drive tone. If you have an fix loop in your amp, run the overdrive and eq in front of it and then phase > delay in the loop. That puts everything in a good basic order before your amp's reverb.
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Godfrey Arthur


From:
Philippines
Post Posted 14 Aug 2017 11:20 am     Reply with quote

Actually it doesn't matter which you put first or last. It all depends on you and what you want to achieve.

Tweaking these effects in the chain is KEY. You can add a hint of phaser into your delay or a hint of delay into your phaser. Or more or less of either. There are no real rules even if a "rule" is gain before delay.

And if you run in stereo you get more of an excited effect as many time-effects these days are stereo at least on recordings.

Yet do note that in pro concerts, the stereo field is harnessed on the FOH (front of house) PA system even if only a very few of the audience are in the goldilocks zone between both speakers and the power alley to hear the effect.

Subtle moves on your effects pedals' knobs can reveal added effects without sounding like the proverbial 747 wash.

The Boss EH-2 adds a marked clarity to an instrument that you only notice working after you've turned it off.

Hence easy does it can mean more. But in the end it is up to you. You're the one playing your rig.



You can also, depending on the sophistication of your rig, add effects through a BUS to where you have a dry signal sound of your guitar and then add the effects ONTO the mix rather than running the whole guitar through the effects. OR have two amps, one for your dry guitar and the other amp for your effects that you can control with a volume pedal.

So many possibilities.



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Fred Treece


From:
California, USA
Post Posted 14 Aug 2017 10:30 pm     Reply with quote

I remember discovering that my delay was in front of an overdrive pedal one gig. What a frustrating set that was. There was certainly nothing cool or experimental about that sound. It was just plain wrong.
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Godfrey Arthur


From:
Philippines
Post Posted 15 Aug 2017 3:57 am     Reply with quote

Fred Treece wrote:
I remember discovering that my delay was in front of an overdrive pedal one gig. What a frustrating set that was. There was certainly nothing cool or experimental about that sound. It was just plain wrong.


Delays are used in front of distortion. Although they use a tape delay, Van Halen and Brian Setzer are examples and there are many more players who do this. The preamp in the delay is overdriven and placed in front of the amp.

Again, tweaking things by ear is key if you've got the idea of the tone. It would definitely be experimental away from the classic clean steel tone but with experimenters like Robert Randolph taking things in a different direction, there are more possibilities.

Pete Thorn demos Van Halen's Aint Talking 'Bout Love with delay before distortion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTIHC86sDZo

Other demos using delay into distortion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afDBmVn4hWs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzqHdMqkbZA



Setzer's rig with the Space Echo, before there were fx loops, this is how they got their sound.
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Chris Bauer


From:
Nashville, TN USA
Post Posted 15 Aug 2017 4:50 am     Reply with quote

My board is likely more convoluted than many would want but I have overdrives both before and after my phaser. That let's me get just the phaser, the sound of overdrive before or after, and it doesn't interfere with my being able to stack the overdrives which I often do.

My recent phaser of choice is the MXR Phase 95 because it's both super versatile and it's a mini pedal so it's easily placed even on tight boards.

As to the original question, I'll join those who say that - as a rule - time-based delays at the end of the chain with delay before reverb. An even better rule, though, as far as I'm concerned ? Forget the rules and play around till you find the sound you want to hear. Nothing in the world says that has to be the sound everyone else wants to hear.
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Fred Treece


From:
California, USA
Post Posted 15 Aug 2017 8:15 am     Reply with quote

Godfrey Arthur wrote:

Delays are used in front of distortion. .

And Godfrey can be used in front of Arthur. It is important that the name go with the face, otherwise you're talking about a lot of tweaking. Cool
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b0b


From:
Northern California
Post Posted 15 Aug 2017 10:16 am     Reply with quote

Fred Treece wrote:
Your setup looks good. You could try putting the parametric after the overdrive, unless you are using it to eq your un-Drive tone. If you have an fix loop in your amp, run the overdrive and eq in front of it and then phase > delay in the loop. That puts everything in a good basic order before your amp's reverb.

My amp doesn't have an effects loop.

The parametric EQ is switched on for a Bakersfield effect, to change the steel tone for Buck Owens tunes and the like. I normally have a rich, full tone, but for Ralph Mooney parts I knock down the lows and boost the upper mids. I never use it with distortion.
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Fred Treece


From:
California, USA
Post Posted 15 Aug 2017 1:34 pm     Reply with quote

Graphic eq works better than parametric with an overdrive pedal anyway. It doesn't really matter which one goes first if you are not using them together. That pretty much goes for anything in your effects chain.
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