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Post new topic G# to B raise - 6th string
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Author Topic:  G# to B raise - 6th string
Tim Russell


From:
Pennsylvania, USA
Post Posted 3 May 2017 1:53 pm     Reply with quote

The Williams I recently purchased has the G# to B raise - 6th string on RKR.

It is an interesting change, bringing that string into unison with the 5th., but I can't really find much else to do with it...that is, to justify using up a knee with it.

Anyone use that change? Any songs with examples?
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Jonah Turner


From:
Nebraska, USA
Post Posted 3 May 2017 3:58 pm     Reply with quote

It was also on the guitar I got just a few months ago that used to belong to Tommy White. I don't know if it was his change or if it was added somewhere in between. I'll be interested to see what other people think of it too; I definitely haven't heard many examples of it.
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Rich Peterson


From:
Moorhead, MN
Post Posted 3 May 2017 5:02 pm     Reply with quote

This gives some examples of that change and a few others.
https://youtu.be/PNMvxYqXw8I
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Greg Cutshaw


From:
Corry, PA, USA
Post Posted 3 May 2017 5:26 pm     Reply with quote

Really cool link Rich!

Here's a nice sound for a slow ballad using the G# to B change:

http://www.gregcutshaw.com/Tab/Tab658.mp3

Tab in pdf format:

http://www.gregcutshaw.com/Tab/Tab658.pdf
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Tony Dingus


From:
Kingsport, Tennessee, USA
Post Posted 3 May 2017 6:33 pm     Reply with quote

Paul Franklin has it on his left vertical. He talks about in this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phDJy_IiR1Y


Tony
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Mickey Adams


From:
Bandera Texas
Post Posted 3 May 2017 7:52 pm     Reply with quote

This has become one of my all time favorite changes...I have it on all by guitars...Fabulous stacks of close intervals available...!!
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Craig A Davidson


From:
Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA
Post Posted 4 May 2017 5:32 am     Reply with quote

I just put it on my Mullen and love it. Now for the Williams.
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Tim Russell


From:
Pennsylvania, USA
Post Posted 4 May 2017 10:48 am     Reply with quote

Thanks for that video, Tony. Paul is awesome, of course. For some reason, it doesn't sound the same when I play it... Confused
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Erv Niehaus


From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
Post Posted 4 May 2017 12:30 pm     Reply with quote

That's quite a raise, how long does the string last?
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Drew Howard


From:
Mason, MI, U.S.A.
Post Posted 4 May 2017 5:12 pm     Reply with quote

Erv, good question. I would love to have this change. But how long does the G# .020 last?
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Greg Cutshaw


From:
Corry, PA, USA
Post Posted 4 May 2017 5:29 pm     Reply with quote

I use a .022 plain and have had the G# to B on 3 different guitars and never broke a string.
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Erv Niehaus


From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
Post Posted 5 May 2017 7:11 am     Reply with quote

Another question, how many guitars have a changer that can make that change?
I know of some guitars that have a hard time dropping the G# to F#.
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Greg Cutshaw


From:
Corry, PA, USA
Post Posted 5 May 2017 9:07 am     Reply with quote

I was able to do that change with the .022 plain string on my old Jim Vest Sho-Bud Pro II custom, current Excel 12 string and my new Williams S-12.
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Tuukka Ojala


From:
Finland
Post Posted 5 May 2017 12:04 pm     Reply with quote

Isn't this the same change that is at the beginning of the steel break on Look at us? This one:

https://youtu.be/uSfjp1ky4Mw?t=2m52s

I don't know how unusual it is to have that change but it would seem the Stage One has it too, unless there's some black magic involved which I'm not aware of:

https://soundcloud.com/user649826/look-at-us-mix

Mind you, I'm not a steel player (yet), but picking up changes and the like is what I routinely do to prepare myself for when the inevitable happens.
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John McClung


From:
Olympia WA, USA
Post Posted 12 May 2017 8:43 am     Reply with quote

On the video Tony Dingus link to where PF explains his copedent, the vertical lever raise of string 6 G#>B is at 2:50>3:25.
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Brint Hannay


From:
Maryland, USA
Post Posted 12 May 2017 10:39 am     Reply with quote

Tuukka Ojala wrote:
Isn't this the same change that is at the beginning of the steel break on Look at us? This one:

https://youtu.be/uSfjp1ky4Mw?t=2m52s

I don't know how unusual it is to have that change but it would seem the Stage One has it too, unless there's some black magic involved which I'm not aware of:

https://soundcloud.com/user649826/look-at-us-mix

Mind you, I'm not a steel player (yet), but picking up changes and the like is what I routinely do to prepare myself for when the inevitable happens.

Black magic: I believe the minor third drop in the Look At Us solo is on the 4th string, releasing from the C pedal whole-step raise to the half-step lower. Executing it on the 6th string with a B raise would have a quite different timbre.
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Jim Palenscar


From:
Oceanside, Calif, USA
Post Posted 13 May 2017 8:16 am     Reply with quote

I have this on my 0 pedal and also lower the 7th string F# to an E as well as raising my 9th string D to a B so it's just a giant power chord w 1's and 5's all the way to the 4th string.
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Tim Russell


From:
Pennsylvania, USA
Post Posted 13 May 2017 10:24 am     Reply with quote

Part of my problem is where to place it for best use. It is currently on my RKL, which also lowers the 2nd string. This interferes with some licks that I like to use.

On my other guitar, the 6th lower in also coupled with 1&2 string raise, which also cramps some licks. Should the 6th raise be on a lever of its own for best use?
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Andy De Paule


From:
Saigon, Viet Nam & Eugene, Oregon
Post Posted 6 Jul 2017 7:26 am     I thought it was my idea? Reply with quote

Erv Niehaus wrote:
That's quite a raise, how long does the string last?


Just goes to show, I thought it was my idea?
I have it on my 5th pedal next to another that raises the 5th string to B to C#.
Maybe I should have it on a knee as well, but I'm all out of knee levers now. Laughing
Guess it's danged near impossible to have a new idea?

I've been using my pedals 4&5 together to get an E6th tuning from strings 10 to 3.
But I already have an A6th with pedals 3&4 that I use like a non pedal steel on 8 strings.
However I'm thinking I really don't need another 6th chord and the licks some guys are getting with just the G# to B makes me think of removing the F# to G#.

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Andy De Paule


From:
Saigon, Viet Nam & Eugene, Oregon
Post Posted 6 Jul 2017 7:51 am     Never a broken string Reply with quote

Hi Erv,
I've got both my second string C# to E (0.015) and the 6th String G# to B (0.022P) going 3 half steps and never ever had a broken string.
But I have screwed up a few good licks! Rolling Eyes
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Custom inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th.
Promat #11 2007, D-10 Blond & Mahogany with Gold Tuners. Killer Tone Monster.
Todd Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel.
New Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 All Polished Aluminum including covering.
1960 Wright S-10 Cable PSG
Todd Clinesmith T-8 Console Ordered.
Korean D'Angelico EX-SS Electric Single Cutaway. Great guitar.
Fender re-issue in C6th and a Morrell 8 string lap steel in E13th. Resophonic by Edwin Root.
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Jim Reynolds


From:
Franklin, Pennsylvania
Post Posted 8 Jul 2017 11:40 am     Reply with quote

Yes, this was the change that John used on "Look At Us". I have the Woodshed, Jeff did, on this, and does explain it on there, that it was the change that John had on the song. He does go on to show how to get the same sound, but with different approach. The only other I've seen was in Buddy Emmons, Sounds Of Christmas, he uses it several times.
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Brad Malone


From:
Pennsylvania, USA
Post Posted 8 Jul 2017 3:03 pm     but do they stay in tune? Reply with quote

I would think that pulling a string 3 half tones would knock the string out of tune..so even if it does not break, it probably detunes..not a change that I would want.
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Andy De Paule


From:
Saigon, Viet Nam & Eugene, Oregon
Post Posted 8 Jul 2017 3:52 pm     Re: but do they stay in tune? Reply with quote

Brad Malone wrote:
I would think that pulling a string 3 half tones would knock the string out of tune..so even if it does not break, it probably detunes..not a change that I would want.


Not sure about other steels, but with my Mullen and also my Star Guitar you'd be wrong.... Comes back perfect as soon as the strings are stretched out and stable. Very Happy
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Custom inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th.
Promat #11 2007, D-10 Blond & Mahogany with Gold Tuners. Killer Tone Monster.
Todd Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel.
New Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 All Polished Aluminum including covering.
1960 Wright S-10 Cable PSG
Todd Clinesmith T-8 Console Ordered.
Korean D'Angelico EX-SS Electric Single Cutaway. Great guitar.
Fender re-issue in C6th and a Morrell 8 string lap steel in E13th. Resophonic by Edwin Root.
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Fred Treece


From:
California, USA
Post Posted 8 Jul 2017 8:26 pm     Reply with quote

Tuukka Ojala wrote:
I don't know how unusual it is to have that change but it would seem the Stage One has it too, unless there's some black magic involved which I'm not aware of:
https://soundcloud.com/user649826/look-at-us-mix.

The Stage One does not have a minor 3rd drop change on string 6. The only m3rd drop change is as Brint Hannay explained, on str 4 using C release to LKR. Not sure what color the magic is, but it makes for some interesting possibilities.
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Richard Sinkler


From:
Oakdale, California
Post Posted 9 Jul 2017 6:40 am     Reply with quote

Brint Hannay wrote:
Tuukka Ojala wrote:
Isn't this the same change that is at the beginning of the steel break on Look at us? This one:

https://youtu.be/uSfjp1ky4Mw?t=2m52s

I don't know how unusual it is to have that change but it would seem the Stage One has it too, unless there's some black magic involved which I'm not aware of:

https://soundcloud.com/user649826/look-at-us-mix

Mind you, I'm not a steel player (yet), but picking up changes and the like is what I routinely do to prepare myself for when the inevitable happens.

Black magic: I believe the minor third drop in the Look At Us solo is on the 4th string, releasing from the C pedal whole-step raise to the half-step lower. Executing it on the 6th string with a B raise would have a quite different timbre.


Brint is correct on the John Hughey solo. I've known John since mid 70's, and don't believed he raised the sixth string to B. I would talk to him twice a year, and when we talked about our tunings, he never mentioned it. I have the tab that came with one of John's CD's, and that change is not on his guitar.

Amd I'm almost positive that that change is not on a Stage One, unless Doug made a special guitar for someone. If I remember right, the pedal and lever changes can't be moved around because the bell cranks are welded to the cross shafts. I'm not sure a pull-release guitar could make that change (Lane Gray would know).
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