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Topic: Playing above Fret 17 |
Brian Henry
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Posted 25 Dec 2015 12:25 pm |
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| I love to do a few licks above fret 17., but the sound seems to diminish radically, also would a thinner bar be better. I currently use 1" diameter bar? Thank you |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 25 Dec 2015 12:52 pm
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When you play without an amp, does it die up there as well? Some guitars seem to die there, but sometimes it's the pickup.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Brian Henry
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Posted 25 Dec 2015 1:33 pm
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| I have a Carter with an Alumitone. I must do a test! |
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Jim Priebe
From:
Queensland, Australia - R.I.P.
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Posted 25 Dec 2015 1:48 pm
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What Lane said and Alumes can get a bit "piano-ey" up there. I find (strangely) that boosting the low mids on the amp helps a lot. It's the note's natural harmonics that can disappear maybe and as Alumes are so 'hi-fi' they just don't naturally compensate as some other pups do.
_________________
Priebs GFI ('09)Short-Uni10. GFI ('96)Short-Uni SD11. ('86)JEM U12
www.steelguitardownunder.com |
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Mark van Allen
From:
Watkinsville, Ga. USA
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Posted 25 Dec 2015 2:11 pm
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Hopefully it's nothing in the guitar itself. What does the sound do when you listen to it unplugged? if you can hear the same basic harmonic balance of fundamental to overtones as you move on up the neck, it's probably fine.
I have owned quite a few different guitars and they all seem to have different characteristics up high on the neck. While some were more or less sweet, had more or less sustain, and different blends of overtones, only one actually died up high. And I mean died. It was as if vibration/output were cut by 2/3 or more. There are a number of adjustments that can be done, body to neck screws, etc. on various guitars to alter some of that and I tried everything, but it was just a lost cause up there. I believe, as with my experience, that's a fairly rare phenomenon. If you don't notice greatly diminished "volume" or response when un-amplified, it might be something with your hand position or bar pressure… best of luck working it out.
_________________
Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com
www.musicfarmstudio.com |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 25 Dec 2015 4:25 pm
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| Jim Priebe wrote: |
| What Lane said and Alumes can get a bit "piano-ey" up there. I find (strangely) that boosting the low mids on the amp helps a lot. It's the note's natural harmonics that can disappear maybe and as Alumes are so 'hi-fi' they just don't naturally compensate as some other pups do. |
Remember, we steelies tend to cut the frequencies around 1000. That's the fundamental (main tone) of the note of the 3rd string at the 14th fret or so, so we're cutting the note itself.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Steven Welborn
From:
Ojai,CA USA
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Posted 25 Dec 2015 4:28 pm
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| youre spossed to play up there? I thought that was a bar code. |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 25 Dec 2015 4:36 pm
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
Remember, we steelies tend to cut the frequencies around 1000. |
We do???? I must have missed that one 
Anyway, back in the days I had quite a bit of luck by selecting and mixing the right - or best - strings / brands for improved sustain up high on the fretboard. Slow process though, as each change of gauge / brand required retuning of pulls. |
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John Booth
From:
Columbus Ohio, USA
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Posted 25 Dec 2015 5:57 pm
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| Steven Welborn wrote: |
| youre spossed to play up there? I thought that was a bar code. |
OH LAWDY ! 
_________________
Jb in Ohio
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GFI S10 Ultra, Telecaster, a Hound Dog, and an Annoyed Wife
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 25 Dec 2015 11:57 pm
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Georg, I know you like no EQ.
But most of us boost the lows, boost the low mids (if possible in our amps), cut the upper mids and a bit of boost or cut depending on taste up high.
But if you look at most people's amp settings, most of us do, and you're an outlier.
And they're cutting right where they then say "my sound drops off up there."
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 26 Dec 2015 1:12 am
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OK Lane - I got it, but from "the edge" ... 
I do like, and use, a bit of eq'ing, but not in the amps.
1: I have a "high" control in my pre-VP buffer, that I can use to raise or lower the top end. Usually keep it at +3db around 1KHz, which is an almost inaudible raise for 3d string above the 17th fret.
2: I generally do not like to have more "electronics" in my sound-chains than absolutely necessary, as each circuit tends to introduce unwanted distortion and cut in the really low frequencies. Thus, bypassing the input and eq section on my regular amp - NV112 - gives me stronger and deeper-sounding lows by letting more sub-harmonics through. (Audio-electronics is part of my profession (been at it for 50+ years) so I know exactly what I'm doing, and why.)
3: I alter picking position - move my right hand - to get the sound (and effects) I want, something I have found to work better for achieving an overall "round and smooth" tone (that most players in my experience seem to aim for) than "tuning in an equalizer", while also making it easier to cut through with real highs when needed since no eq-settings are holding back down the sound-chain.
Practicing to figure out the best picking and bar technique, is everything when picking up high on the fretboard, and should work for achieving an acceptable volume and sustain well above 17th fret - unless the instrument itself is totally dead up there in which case nothing really works.
I haven't run into a totally hopeless PSG in that respect yet, but some sure need more "force and technique" to deliver decent tone in the high register than others. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 26 Dec 2015 8:26 am
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You really need good bar control when playing in "Hughey Land".  |
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John Goux
From:
California, USA
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Posted 26 Dec 2015 10:32 am
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To the original post, my experience has been, using a thinner bar up high has not yielded better sustain. Usually, the heaviest bar gets the most sound in the high register.
I've had the luxury of having 4 guitars at the house to compare. I've been A/Bing stuff like this.
The winner for sustain in the high register, is a 1974 MSA Classic S-10. Over some very well regarded guitars. This has the original Supersustain pickup. The guitar Is 24" scale length, humbucker, and I play through tube amps. George L stainless. I can use the heavy or smaller medium bar on that guitar both with great results.
I've experimented with bars, and changed back and front between D'Addarrio and GL strings. I'm a 25 year fan of Daddarrio, but in this regard, the a GL stainless have yielded better sustain. The 24 1/4 guitars need the heaviest bar to excell. I don't know if this is a function of scale length string tension, or a relatively small sampling(4 instruments) which are just different from each other.
Interesting that the dark horse of this pack has the best sustain above the 12th fret. It is fine with any bar. Up in Hugheyland, all benefit from heavier bars and George L stainless vs D'Addarrio.
John |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 26 Dec 2015 10:40 am
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i've got an old zum, an old old emmons, old stock pickups and old strings and don't have a problem.
maybe your guitar's no good or you're expecting something unrealistic. |
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Randy Major
From:
Kentucky, USA
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Posted 26 Dec 2015 12:03 pm
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| For me, the quieter I keep my bar hand the better the tone up there. |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 26 Dec 2015 7:52 pm
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| I prefer to not dampen the overtones behind the bar with my left hand fingers up past the 15th fret.… it sounds fuller. |
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