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Topic: Valco string-through pickup replacement? |
John Borchard
From:
Athens, OH 45701
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Posted 23 Jan 2001 3:11 pm |
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Does anyone have a string-through pickup out of a Valco (Supro, Oahu, National, Gretsch, etc.) lap steel? Or do you know anyone who would be able to fabricate the magnets for one? I have a guitar that is missing one of the magnets. If you want to see the type of pickup I'm talking about, check out Mark Davis' National Tonemaster here in the No Peddlers section. It's worth checking out just to see a really beautiful instrument. Thanks in advance for any info you folks might have.
JB
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Jason Lollar
From:
Seattle area
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Posted 23 Jan 2001 6:52 pm
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It takes a minimum of about 1200 dollars to have a custom made alnico magnet made up so you are looking at quantities. If no one has one in a parts box your best bet is to try to find a stock ceramic magnet of the same width and height and use them on both sides. Finding a stock Alnico will be hard as they are not normally polarized along the thickness dimension used for these pickups where ceramics have that polarity normally.
If you have a hard time email me and I will look and see if there is a stock ceramic equivalent. I think those are about 1/2" or 5/8" X 1-1/8" you will have to confirm that It will sound a little brighter than the alnico though but it will be up and running.[This message was edited by Jason Lollar on 23 January 2001 at 06:52 PM.] |
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John Borchard
From:
Athens, OH 45701
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Posted 23 Jan 2001 10:09 pm
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Thanks a lot Jason. I figured this wouldn't be easy. The dimensions are:
Height - 1/2"
Length - 1 3/8"
Width - 3/8"
If you have something that would work let me know. If anyone else has one laying around that they don't mind parting with, let me know and we'll work out a deal. Thanks again for the help, Jason.
JB |
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Jason Lollar
From:
Seattle area
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Posted 24 Jan 2001 12:32 pm
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I think I have something here that will work. I bought some ceramics a while back with making some re-pros of that style pickup in mind. I cant find my note book which tells me the spacing of the screws that hold the assembly together. They are the same screws you see holding the top plate down. The original magnets are recessed to accomodate those screws.
These are 1/2" X 1" X 1/4".
I am pretty sure these will work regardless of the screw detail even though they are not an exact fit. I just never got around to making a complete unit to try it.
They are really cheap something like 25 cents each.
I would just pull the old magnet and slide these in as far as they will go to the screws and see if they work. Remember ceramics have alot more power so they will still be happining even if they are a little further away from the coil than the Alnico.
Depending on how they fit you may have to make an additional spacer.
Email me with your address and I will send these off to you. lollar@aa.net. I will expect a report on how well it works in return. |
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John Borchard
From:
Athens, OH 45701
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Posted 24 Jan 2001 2:39 pm
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Wow! Thanks a lot, Jason. I sent you an e-mail with my address and will most assuredly give you a report on how these work.
Man, this forum never ceases to amaze me. I figured I'd be hunting for months to find something that would work. Super job, b0b, and thanks again, Jason.
Now, if you could help me find the winning lottery ticket, true love, or the meaning of life...!
JB |
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Matt Farrow
From:
Raleigh, NC, USA
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Posted 26 Jan 2001 7:23 am
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I have a Supro Student DeLuxe with this same pickup. Mine only has one magnet - on the bass side of the coils (aren't there two coils on these, one for the trebles and one for the basses, wired like a P-bass pickup?) The magnet on the treble side wasn't a magnet at all, rather a block of wood painted silver. I can't imagine how loud this thing would be with two magnets! Seriously, I'd love to have this pickup on my Tele! Jason, want to build me four of them?
Thanks
Matt Farrow
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Don Sutley
From:
Pensacola, FL
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Posted 26 Jan 2001 11:57 am
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| Jason rebuilt the pickup in my '49 National Chicagoan. It had the side magnets and cover but no bobbin or coil. It sounds great and Jason is a pleasure to work with. Highly recommended, guys. |
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Jason Lollar
From:
Seattle area
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Posted 27 Jan 2001 5:15 pm
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Pharoah, They came stock with 2 magnets, yours may have had a block put in for a missing magnet. They used this pickup in several different models and manufacturers so its possible yours is stock with just one. I doubt it would make it much louder but it would probably make the string balance different with just one magnet. They are a split bobbin but they are wired up as a single coil. P-bass have one bobbin south and one north wired in opposing directions for a humbucking effect.
The stock bobbins are hard to re-wind I recall making a new single bobbin for Don, glad it worked good.
I have been thinking about making a drop in replacement like these or like the Fender string through pickup for Tele bridge pickups. Lets see what John says about the magnets I sent him.[This message was edited by Jason Lollar on 27 January 2001 at 05:22 PM.] |
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John Borchard
From:
Athens, OH 45701
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Posted 29 Jan 2001 8:33 am
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Oh man, now you've really got my mind going, Jason. I'd been thinking about sticking one of these pickups in a guitar, most likely one of my Telecasters. I've also been toying with a lap steel design that my friend and neighbor, Dan Erlewine said he'd help with that would utilize one, too.
Haven't been to the post office yet today, but will go at lunch. If the magnets are there, I'll have 'em in the guitar tonight and I'll give you the full report.
JB[This message was edited by John Borchard on 29 January 2001 at 08:35 AM.] |
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John Borchard
From:
Athens, OH 45701
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Posted 30 Jan 2001 7:41 am
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Jason, I got the magnets yesterday and experimented with them last night. Here are the results which were achieved after positioning the magnets and reassembling the plate that goes above the pickup coil and attaches to the magnets:
1. Ceramic magnets on each side of the pickup coil: Very weak sound. Thin and unacceptable.
2. Ceramic magnet on one side, original alnico on other side: Better but still weak and unacceptable.
3. Two ceramic magnets on one side, original alnico on other side: Even more improved. However, it still sounds as though the polarity of the magnets is misaligned. This is following all possible orientations of the magnets in relation to one another and arriving at the one that sounds best. It also takes into account the adjusting of the pole pieces for optimal string balance.
Final assessment: None of these arrangements sounded as good as the one alnico magnet by itself, and that didn't begin to compare with the sound of my three other healthy Valco steels.
I wonder if the ceramics just aren't big enough. The alnico has about twice the mass of the ceramic. Thanks for the help, Jason. Hopefully, this might give you some useful info for your project. I'd really be interested if you come up with a drop-in for a Tele. I'll pop the magnets in the mail back to you today.
In the meantime, if anyone out there has one of these pickups laying around that you're willing to part with, please contact me. Thanks.
JB |
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Jason Lollar
From:
Seattle area
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Posted 30 Jan 2001 10:48 pm
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Thats too bad, I was hoping those would work! Sounds like you did the right things to insure against the possibility that the magnets were not installed with proper polarity.
Back to looking for a magnet that will work.
Thanks for the report back. Sorry I dont have anything else to try at this time.
Check my site once in a while under new products, I will be working on a drop in for a Tele but I have a few other designs to get done first.
Jason[This message was edited by Jason Lollar on 30 January 2001 at 10:52 PM.] |
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John Borchard
From:
Athens, OH 45701
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Posted 31 Jan 2001 9:08 am
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I'll keep my eye on your site, Jason. Thanks again.
Anybobody have one of these pickups? I'd consider buying a whole Valco steel guitar if someone has one cheap. Preferably an old beater. The pickup wouldn't even need to be working as long as the magnets are there.
JB |
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Matt Farrow
From:
Raleigh, NC, USA
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Posted 31 Jan 2001 1:12 pm
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Jason: would it be helpful to you to get one of these magnets to study? If you had a model, could you order replacement magnets? I have this one magnet from my Supro, and I'd be happy to send it to you.
Also, what if the pickup were wired like a P-bass pickup, that is to say, humbucking with one coil top-going, the other top-coming? I wonder if that would sound "better?" or have less hum? Anyway, the pickup is so thin that I would think a "bolt-on" pickup would be easier to implement than a "drop-in." You could have 3 threaded holes in the bottom plate of the pickup that line up with the 3 holes on the Tele bridge plate. You might have to raise your bridge saddles up and possible shim your neck to keep the action the same, and of course it would TOTALLY overpower a stock neck pickup but it would sound really great!
Matt Farrow
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Matt Farrow
'74 Emmons GS10 / '72 Kustom Sidewinder JBL
http://surf.to/pharaohamps
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Jason Lollar
From:
Seattle area
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Posted 31 Jan 2001 4:02 pm
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John, I just got one of those pickups in today. Normally I just deal with the bobbin and wire not the magnets so I overlooked how the poles are oriented. I had mistakenly thought he poles were aligned horizontally when they are actually vertically aligned. That is a problem.
You can call the magnet source at 1 800 525 3536 and ask for Renelle. Tell her I reffered you and you need some samples for a new pickup design. Ask for quantity of 4 part number CB 1434. You will have to stack 2 together to get the 1/2" dimension. the overall dimesion of each is .25 X .375 X .75. they are a little shorter than stock but that shouldnt hurt it. these will give you the poles aligned vertically. Having the poles misaligned would create all the symptoms you describe. Email me after you get them and I will tell you how to orient them if you cant figure it out. If they wont send them out to you let me know and I will get some.
Matt you have the right idea about mounting. Having the magnet from yours is not needed, I have the info I need now, I think, let see if John gets those magnets and tries them. Making them from Alnico would be too costly I am hoping to find a stock size that will work at the price is much better and you can buy small quantities. |
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John Borchard
From:
Athens, OH 45701
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Posted 1 Feb 2001 7:08 am
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Thanks again, Jason. I'll give Renelle a call and let you know how it turns out. I'm a man with a mission, now!
JB |
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Matt Farrow
From:
Raleigh, NC, USA
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Posted 1 Feb 2001 9:04 am
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Right on. I was looking at my Tele last night, and I believe that the Valco pickup will go right in there under the strings. So I'm going to see about fabricating a bobbin and frame for one of these - Jason, how much would it cost to make a set of bobbins? I can make the plates, and then when we see about the magnets, we can throw one on a Tele and see how it sounds. Hell, then I can make a 9-string pickup to put on my pedal steel!
Matt Farrow
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Jason Lollar
From:
Seattle area
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Posted 1 Feb 2001 7:52 pm
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If you want to talk about having bobbins made and prices email me direct as soliciting or talking sales over a forum like this is considered rude by some or most users and the people here have been good to me.
The Tele thing has been an idea I have had for some time and have run into some other people that are thinking the same thing so I think its only a matter of time before you see one. |
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John Borchard
From:
Athens, OH 45701
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Posted 4 Feb 2001 2:09 am
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Brad, I think this thread has run its course for now. Let's close it up. Thanks.
JB |
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