8 String tunings

Lawrence Hamm · From: Abbotsford, B.C Canada

Help, I'm a beginner. I bought a fender stringmaster 20 years ago at a pawn shop, and am finally going to use it. I briefly played it open E tuning when I bought it, but had to fake the minor chording. I don't know what tuning I should use. If it were a 6 string I'd probably use C6, but with 8 strings the A6 tuning looks good because of the 4 string duplication and the F# allowing minor chords. The 8 string C6 tuning seems too different than the 6 string because of the low A and high G. Can anyone explain the advantages and disadvantages of each tuning?

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Lawrence,

Here are my thoughts on 8 string tunings; There are many of course. The 3 most popular I believe are C6, E13 and A6.

Of these three probably C6 is the most popular, but it is not tuned in a lot of cases like I have seen on this forum. IE:

G
E
C
A
G
E
C
A

But rather:

E
C
A
G
E
C
A
F

For years this was THE tuning on single double and triple necks prior to pedals. Of coure E6/E13 and A6 also prevailed a lot.

I prefer the F note on the 8th string (C6) and sacrificing the G note on the 1st string.

A number of players including Buddy Emmons feel that A6 sounds a little too bassy for our tastes. I agree. Never cared for it. But players like Herb Remington, Noel Boggs, etc use(d) it all the time. So you may like it.

If you like a lot of western swing type songs, E13 is great because it has a good diversified chord capability.

Here is the most popular form of that tuning:

E
C#
B
G#
F#
E
D
B

This was used by many western swing afficienados. I don't personally care for it, because the F#, C# and B notes forces one to almost tune ET which I can't stand. So most either tuned ET or split the difference. Try it you may like it.

Here is an 8 string tuning that the greatest non pedal player on earth uses all the time (Jerry Byrd):

E
C
A
G
E
C#
C
A (Low, low A)]

Takes a while to get used to two strings a one note a part. But once you do, you might like it. I love it!

You mention about "minors". Remember that NO non pedal tuning every created can produce all chords without slanting. So learn (if you don't already) to use the forward and backward slants profusely. If you ever had the pleasure (and thrill) of seeing the master of slants (Jerry Byrd) you would see the tremendous capability of chords as he gets them using all forms of slants.

May our Lord bless you with what ever you do,

carl

Rich Young · From: Georgetown, TX, USA

Which brings up something I've been wondering about.
I've been playing about 2 years and have quite a few chords down but I know there must be a LOT of others I haven't thought about. I'm using C6th with the high G, which seems pretty popular. Is there any source for chords for this tuning? I have the Cashdollar videos and the Mel Bay book. I thinking about more chords than what I've learned from these and what I've fiquared out so far. I know of a million guitar books of chords but nothing for steel. I know all the various tuings would make this difficult but C6th is pretty common.
I did make up a chart on my computer with all the notes up and down the neck, and this helped a lot, but there's a lot I've missed, I'm sure.

Don Sutley · From: Pensacola, FL

Rich,

This site has been posted before on this forum but it's worth posting again http://www.power-chord.com/gaff/mapper It only lists tunings for 7 strings but most tunings duplicate a note or two anyway. Try the 8 string C6 tuning under "Tunings - User Defined ".

Rich Young · From: Georgetown, TX, USA

Thanks.
I've checked it out. It helps a little, but it just shows all the possible notes for the chord, which I can do with he neck (note) chart I made up. What I would love to find is some chords that steel players actually play. I found some stuff on the tab page here where there were chords written out and even though I can see them on the page or on the steel now, I didn't think of that voicing or position just looking at the notes. Even though I've been playing guitar for 30 years, I sometimes look through guitar chord books and say "That's a cool way of playing that, why didn't I think of that?". That's what I'd love to find on the steel.
Well, I'll keep plugging.

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Lawrence,

I hear ya man!

I really do! I do not profess to know much about how chords are gotten on the steel, but here are few things you might not know about. They are ways to get 7ths, 9ths, relative minor inversions, 3 note diminished and augmented chords.

I will use JB's famous A7/C6 tuning

E
C
A
G
E
C#
C
A

for the following examples:

1. Two frets up from the tonic fret you have a pretty V7 chord with the 5th on top. Do this; use a forward slant picking strings 2, 3 and 5 but slant the 5th string, NOT the 2nd or 3rd string. They must be picked straight. Use the bullet end of the bar to achieve this.

2. Two frets down from the tonic fret you have the tonic 9th chord by picking strings 1, 3 and 4 with the 4th string slanted in a forward slant as above with the 1st and 2nd strings held straight.

3. Two frets down from the tonic fret you have a V7 chord picking strings 1, 3, 4, 5, and 6. A nice strum with the V7 root on top 6 thru 3.

4. Five frets up from the tonic fret, and a 3 fret slant on strings 1, 2 and 3 gives you another inversion of the tonic's relative minor. This one having the root on top. Very pretty chord by the way. A JB classic!

5. Backward slant the bar keeping the 1st string at the V chord fret and the 3rd string one fret forward gives you a pretty two note V7 chord.

6. Now reverse the above slant. Letting the top of the bar move up one fret and the bar on the 3rd string go back one fret. A figure X movement evolves the above V7 chord to the tonic in a very pleasing way. Nice sound when executed correctly.

7. At any fret use a forward slant as in item 2. above and picking strings 2, 3 and 4 gives you a 3 noted diminished chord.

8. Three frets up from a tonic chord, using a 2 fret forward slant and picking string 1, 2 and 3, with 1 and 2 straight, gives you a V augmented chord. Great passing chord back to the I chord.

9. One fret down and one fret up (backward slanting) from the tonic chord, picking strings 2 and 5 gives you a V7 chord.

10. Straightening the bar from the last item resolves this V7 chord to a I chord very nicely.

Hope this helps you.

God bless you in your endeavors,

carl

[This message was edited by C Dixon on 20 August 2000 at 09:41 AM.]

[This message was edited by C Dixon on 21 August 2000 at 09:34 AM.]

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Finally Lawrence, a strong word of caution. When you slant the bar try your best NOT to slant your left hand!!!

"Ole salty dog"

Jerry Byrd would boil you in oil for doing this. Learn to use your fingers and thumb to slant the bar.

True, you may throw the bar across the room a couple of times 'til you get used to it. But a lesson well learned indeed IMHO.

take care,

carl

Don Sutley · From: Pensacola, FL

Carl,
Thanks very much for your posts. I had to tab it all out and figure out the notes for it to sink in for me but it was well worth the effort. Please keep the lessons coming!

Lynn Kasdorf · From: Waterford Virginia, USA

Carl- thanks for the excellent instruction. I really like describing things like you do- 2 frets up from tonic, etc. Makes it easy to apply to any situation.

By the way, I have gotten really used to having a V on the top- many melodies fall out nicely there, and harmonic slides fall out well. So I play GECAGECA for my C6. I guess that's why we have so many necks!

I'm gonna give that JB tuning a try on my middle neck- looks like it might be a winner.

A tip for slanters- use a bullet bar rather than a dobro (stevens) bar. I find that a dobro bar makes it much harder to do proper slant technique because you pretty much can't ever let go of the bar, lest it fall over. When doing a figure x, you kinda need to release the bar for a short time. Reverse slants are especially hard with a dobro bar.

------------------
"You call that thing a guitar?"

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Here are a couple more examples:

1. Even though having an E on top removes the 1 3 5 chord, there is a subtle way of getting this chord 3 frets up from a given chord. But only picking strings 1 and 3. Yes, I know it does not contain the 3rd, but JB uses it all the time. And believe it or not it does work. In fact sometimes it actually sounds better. Try it!

2. 3 frets up from a given chord you have that chords minor inversion. Example: 3rd fret, pickings strings 1, 2, 3, 5, 7 and 8 gives you Cminor. Try this:

Move up 3 frets from the tonic chord in 3 step movements, picking strings 1, 2 and 3 and let them sustain. This takes you from a I chord to the I minor chord. Great blues chord and used a lot by "blues" players including Jerry Bryd. While at that fret, alter your grip to include various combinations of three strings mentioned in the above paragraph.

You can stay here "all night" in a blues style and it is very affective. Even with the band playing the I chord!!!

While at that 3 fret above place, try this:

Make sure your grip is strings 1, 2 and 3. Now pick these strings and slide up 2 more frets in a 3 fret slant. This takes you to the relative minor chord of the I chord.

Now slide back to the tonic chord (5 frets back) and straighten the bar. A very nice blues sound changing back to the root chord. And when done smoothly makes you think you are JB playing

Don't you and I wish huh?

]

Have fun,

carl

John Kavanagh · From: Kentville, Nova Scotia, Canada * R.I.P.

You might also want to try bending strings behind the bar. Some people like this, some don't. There's a posting on it somewhere here. The people who don't do it say it's because pedal steel does the same thing better, which is perfectly true, but we don't all play pedal steel, and you can steal a few of their licks this way.

On the 3-frets up position, you can bend the second string up to make a tonic 7th chord. This also makes a VI7 chord, or V7 two frets back.

You can bend the top string up for a 3-string
IV chord, or a suspended 4th on I.

Bending the 3rd string makes your I6 into a I7.

You can get a 4-note diminished chord if you can bend both 2nd and 3rd together. A jazzy
IV-chord substitution back one fret, for instance.

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D-8: C6/A6; E13

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