Detuning on 6th string on my 1979 MSA U12

Daniel Morris · From: Westlake, Ohio, USA

Lately my 6th (G#) string has been coming up flat when I raise it to an A (pedal 2). I tried different strings, same thing. Not the weather, it happens anywhere/anytime. Not all the time, and when tuned, it does hold for a spell.
Any thoughts?
Maurice, any ideas?
Thanks.
_________________
1979 MSA U12 Pedal Steel
1982 Kline U12 Pedal steel
2019 Sierra U12 Pedal Steel
2011 Bear Creek MK Weissenborn
Milkman 40W Mini amps w/Telonics 15" speaker.
Dr. Z Surgical Steel w/TT 15" speaker.
Frenzel MB-50 head.
Spaceman, Empress, Origin, Eventide, Pigtronix.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

How old is the tuning nut? It may be starting to strip.
When's the last time the scissor saw a drop (one's enough) of oil? You may be picking up the lower finger.
Those are my first two guesses.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Jim Lindsey (Louisiana) · From: Greenwell Springs, Louisiana (deceased)

I agree with Lane's initial guess. If it's not a lubrication issue, my first guess would be the same; the tuning nut.

Years ago when I was playing my MSA Classic XL, I started to have an issue like that on my 6th string (B pedal) raise. I would tune it and it would stay in tune for a bit and then, slowly, as I used my B pedal it would raise flatter and flatter.

I began to notice that my tuning nut was turning awfully easy when I'd tune it back up and realized that it must be stripping out. Turns out that was exactly what the issue was with my guitar.

I didn't have any spare nylon tuning nuts with me at the gig, so during a break I took it off and turned it around, put it back on and it re-threaded tight for a temporary fix. I had no more problems the rest of the night. The following day I put a new one on and that solved the issue entirely for my guitar. Smile

_________________
1986 Mullen D-10 with 8 & 7 (Dual Bill Lawrence 705 pickups each neck)
Two Peavey Nashville 400 Amps (with a Session 500 in reserve) - Yamaha SPX-90 II
Peavey ProFex II - Yamaha R-1000 Digital Reverb - Ross Time Machine Digital Delay - BBE Sonic Maximizer 422A
ProCo RAT R2DU Dual Distortion - Korg DT-1 Pro Tuner (Rack Mounted) - Furman PL-8 Power Bay
Goodrich Match-Bro by Buddy Emmons - BJS Steel Bar (Dunlop Finger Picks / Golden Gate Thumb Picks)

Daniel Morris · From: Westlake, Ohio, USA

Thanks, guys.
The nylon tuning nuts are all original, so maybe that's the culprit.
I'm not too good mechanically, but just turning a nut off and turning a new one on should be easy.
Where can I find those nuts?
_________________
1979 MSA U12 Pedal Steel
1982 Kline U12 Pedal steel
2019 Sierra U12 Pedal Steel
2011 Bear Creek MK Weissenborn
Milkman 40W Mini amps w/Telonics 15" speaker.
Dr. Z Surgical Steel w/TT 15" speaker.
Frenzel MB-50 head.
Spaceman, Empress, Origin, Eventide, Pigtronix.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Michael Yahl sells 'em at www.psgparts.com
For MSA get the short ones
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Daniel Morris · From: Westlake, Ohio, USA

Thanks, Lane!
_________________
1979 MSA U12 Pedal Steel
1982 Kline U12 Pedal steel
2019 Sierra U12 Pedal Steel
2011 Bear Creek MK Weissenborn
Milkman 40W Mini amps w/Telonics 15" speaker.
Dr. Z Surgical Steel w/TT 15" speaker.
Frenzel MB-50 head.
Spaceman, Empress, Origin, Eventide, Pigtronix.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

if you are a cheapskate, buy the longest ones and cut them in half Laughing

And you may wish to replace all of them.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Daniel Morris · From: Westlake, Ohio, USA

I just e-mailed Michael for some help with ordering, size (3/16?), installation. Though I consider myself tech/mech-challenged, I have been able to do some limited things on my pedal steel over the years.
I'll buy extras in case this happens on other strings.
Um, where's that "scissor" you mentioned? I've added a drop of (sewing machine) oil here and there, now and then, but I just never learned all the parts' names and locations.
I know, for shame...
_________________
1979 MSA U12 Pedal Steel
1982 Kline U12 Pedal steel
2019 Sierra U12 Pedal Steel
2011 Bear Creek MK Weissenborn
Milkman 40W Mini amps w/Telonics 15" speaker.
Dr. Z Surgical Steel w/TT 15" speaker.
Frenzel MB-50 head.
Spaceman, Empress, Origin, Eventide, Pigtronix.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Someone should be along directly with a graphic of how the changer works. I don't remember where it is, but 1 shows up every now and then on the forum.
The scissor is the little leverage deal that allows you to pull and still get a lower.
if you look at the top of your changer, you will see that 1 piece on each string is aluminum and a thin piece is steel. The steel bit is the scissor.

Changing the tuning nut is easy, You just unscrew the old one, and screw the new one on. It will be more difficult to turn, because they are not threaded, the pullrod will cut threads on as you turn it
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Stuart Legg · Posted 5 Aug 2012 12:12 pm

Usually most problems are are not unique but rather predictable both in scope and maintenance in all older PSG.
In this case it is worn part or parts as usual.
May not be the nut may turn out to be worn spot, grove or bur on the rod where it went through the changer finger,
The finger will settle in that groove or against that bur at times instead of going all the way back. You loosen the tuning nut and tune it to pitch not realizing it hadn't came back to the right place and so when release the pedal it would be flat when it went back to the right place.
Replace the rod or file out the grove or bur and sand it smooth with wet sandpaper all the way back to the treads on the rod.
Also file and sand the ends of the little aluminum tube that is between the nut and bullet end spacer that goes against the changer finger.
Also check that spacer for grooves or burs in the bullet end.

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