Wind strings over or under?

[Jerry Overstreet]

What to you do? Why? My first pedal steel had the strings wound under the post. It seemed odd that way and felt more comfortable tuning and changing strings is easier for me going over the post.

But....is there an advantage or disadvantage either way? Does the extra downforce with underwound strings affect the action or voicing of certain strings? Inquiring gearheads want to know

The keyheads look a bit tidier with the underwound method IMO....and more room to lay your bar there

I know somebody here has compared the 2 methods so I want to know your findings. Come on. Don't be shy.

[Russ Little]

I always wind over the post, less angle on the string

[Louis Vallee]

Same thing for me, I always wind over the post, less angle on the string and the good side to turn the key.

[Jerry Overstreet]

Why does string angle behind the nut matter?

[Louis Vallee]

Jerry,

With less angle after the nut, the string stretches more easily with less tension.

Results less breakage.

[richard burton]

I've gone under for years, as there is more downward force on the nut rollers, hence, less chance of roller buzz.

[Charlie McDonald]

My thinking is over the post for less hysteresis,
but I have no idea if that's true.

[Andy Sandoval]

It seems to me that there must be a logical reason that most steel guitars leave the factory with the strings wound over the post. There must be something to it.

[Billy Carr]

Over only. Never even thought about going under.

[chris ivey]

really...over is the only way a sane person would consider unless you play standing on your head facing away from your steel.

[Donny Hinson]

Over.

Geeze, look at ANY new steel.

Did you ever see one strung up underneath the keys?

(The guys who build these things do have a little knowledge and experience, 'ya know.)

If you have a "buzzing problem" under-stringing is a very poor solution.

[Jim Konrad]

Over for me also! I have tried to tune and play with "garage sale" guitars that are tuned under and everything is backwards with the direction you turn to raise the pitch. I have actually seen guitars with both methods. Really the angle is important, you want enough to keep it in the nut for tone but but not so much it wears out the nut and causes a string to break. Although on a guitar like a strat or a less paul I would try to come off the post lower than some people would. If the angle is not enough you can end up with bad tone and weird rattles.

[Dave Mudgett]

Over the post. Straighter string pull, hopefully less hysteresis from friction on the roller nut. On every PSG I have owned, that gives a significant angle at the roller nut. On some of the strings, that angle is what I would even term "extreme". I can't imagine wanting more angle than that.

There is considerable debate in 6-string circles about how many winds should go on the tuning post. For tonal reasons, I like to have enough winds so the strings have a reasonable angle to give appropriate downward force on the nut. But even with that, the angles on my guitar strings are generally less than that on my pedal steel guitars with the strings wound over the top. On a B-Bender Tele, I tend to put less winds on the B-string to keep it from binding at the nut, and lubricate it like crazy. Of course, there's no roller nut there.

[Bo Borland]

is this one of those are you kidding.. lets confuse the newbie questions?

[Pete Woronowski]

On an electric gtr the proper string length is to pull it tight and measure 2 posts past the post you are winding on, cut the string there, the first wind goes on top of the the string and the rest below the string.
That locks it in place and gives proper tension over the nut.

[Jerry Overstreet]

No Bo. Sorry if it appears that way. I have been stringing up steels for the better part of 30 years using the over post method for no real reason other than it's easier that way plus easier to replace one when they break on the gig.

I was just interested in hearing from others and their reasoning for one or the other method.

I'd venture to guess that the overwhelming vote will be the overwound method.
I was looking for some specific data that support some of the above claims rather than hypothesis and "because I've always done it that way" That is one way, but not the only way.

FI, with the underwound method, string length behind the keyhead is reduced by the diameter of said post. Could this reduce the "zing" overtone suffered by some guitars on the 4th string particularly.
Or....does the added downforce help roller nut buzz as suggested by Richard? Does that tension affect the action and/or tone of the string? One of my keyless guitars had a tuner that pulled the string at 90 degrees same as the changer finger at the bridge end.
I couldn't see that if suffered from any ill effects due to the design.

I try to never discount anyone's reasoning for doing things a different way. Always trying to keep an open mind, eyes and ears. Sometimes, you can learn a lot that way.

Not meant to confuse anyone....just curious

[Bo Borland]

Jerry, not to intending to disrespect your experience, I just thought the question was funny and could be confusing to a newbie.
I just think there IS a right way and a wrong way in certain things, this is probably one of those.

Did you ever read the post from Bobbe about the steel a guy shipped him for new strings.. Bobbe said they were soldered onto the pegs.
Maybe you should add that as a choice, obviously someone thought that was a good idea too.

[Jerry Overstreet]

No disrespect assumed here Bo. I see your point, but far as I'm concerned whether it's right or wrong is a matter of opinion dependent upon the guitar and the user. There's nearly always a good reason for an alternate action.

[Doug Earnest]

Under the post CAN make strings 5 & 6 sound better! It increases the angle of the string over the bridge (I think that's good...)which can take care of a roller that might want to rattle a bit. Of course you also have to turn the key "backwards" which is why I don't do it. I don't think its a ridiculous question at all. If it improves things, do it!

[Jim Sliff]

Under.

More downforce=more sustain. A nut shouldn't rattle either way, but you'll (depending on the instrument) increase sustain by increasing downwards pressure at the nut and/or bridge.

[Dave Mudgett]

Pete Woronowski wrote: On an electric gtr the proper string length is to pull it tight and measure 2 posts past the post you are winding on, cut the string there, the first wind goes on top of the the string and the rest below the string.

I wrote earlier: There is considerable debate in 6-string circles about how many winds should go on the tuning post.

See what I mean?

I assure you that there are many different - and reasonable - views on the "correct" string angle over the nut, at least on guitar. My extremely excellent luthier does a simple tie, and winds once - in fact, that is a whole school of thought among many people who have been thinking about the issue for a long time. That doesn't convince me, but I respect their view - these are some pretty fine luthiers I'm talking about. I admit, this is the first time I've ever heard the issue addressed on PSG.

I agree with Doug Earnest that there is a certain amount of logic to increasing the angle on strings 5 and 6 (or even strings 4-7, since the downward the angle at the nut is indeed quite a bit smaller) to increase downward pressure on the nut, potentially improving sustain. That is the only possible reason I can see for wanting a steeper angle, and definitely the reason I tend to use quite a few winds on a 6-string guitar. But to me, the possible tradeoff is that that increased pressure could possibly increase friction at the roller nut, causing it to be less effective. Even a roller nut has some friction, and it would seem to me that it would increase as the downward pressure increases.

To me, everything is making the "correct" tradeoff. What is "correct" depends on one's goals. My opinions, of course.

[Greg Wisecup]

Where are you John Fabian???

[richard burton]

He's enrolling at 'The Richard Burton Academy Of Engineering Excellence'