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Topic: E9 Meantone tuning |
Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 12 Dec 2014 7:10 am |
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From a question on a recent topic, I'm reminded of a meantone tuning chart I made when the topic of meantone tuning was under discussion.
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=187480&highlight=meantone
Bob posted the tuner settings, in cents deviation + or - from ET or straight-up tuning. The chart follows.
[quote="b0b"]
| Tab: |
lower open raise
F# 0 G +12.5
D +10 D# -7.5
G# -5 A +7.5
D# -7.5 E +5 F -12.5 F# 0
A# -10 B +2.5 C# -2.5
G# -5 A +7.5
F# 0
D# -7.5 E +5 F -12.5
C# -2.5 D +10
B +2.5 C# -2.5 |
Bob has an excellent explanation of what that means concerning intervals, that follows in the former topic.
A more vigorous discussion is here:
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=135112&highlight=meantone
The circle of fifths is reflected on open strings, leaving
major thirds with a width between JI and ET (390 cents). |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 12 Dec 2014 9:55 am
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That A chord will sound strange with a sharped A, methinks. I'll give it a try, first. But it looks odd from here.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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James Wolf
From:
Georgia
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Posted 12 Dec 2014 10:21 am
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
| That A chord will sound strange with a sharped A, methinks. I'll give it a try, first. But it looks odd from here. |
What exactly are you looking at? The distance between the A and the C#?
Last edited by James Wolf on 12 Dec 2014 10:25 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 12 Dec 2014 10:23 am
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It is probably worth mentioning that the "circle of fifths" does not exist in meantone, JI, or most other non-equal temperaments. It is more like a line of fifths, not a circle. You cannot close the circle by joining the two ends of the line, because as you go one way the pitches go higher, while the other way they get lower.
That's why I usually write meantone temperaments as lines of text, not a circle.
| Tab: |
B# -12 cents
E# -10 cents
A# -8 cents
D# -6 cents
G# -4 cents
C# -2 cents
F# 0 cents
B +2 cents
E +4 cents
A +6 cents
D +8 cents
G +10 cents
C +12 cents
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It doesn't matter on steel guitar because we can move the bar and sound OK in any key. But on keyboard instruments, meantone tuning would only allow you to play in a very few keys. The E9 meantone temperament that I use would allow Keys like E, A, B and maybe D and F#. In other words these keys and the notes in them work OK on open strings of E9. |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 12 Dec 2014 10:24 am
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I know what you mean, Lane, but I liked the sound.
The sharp A is said to have some justification due to cabinet drop. It conforms to the practice of tuning at A442 for the same reason.
Still, the offsets can be redistributed to taste, which would be a meantone tuning with a different comma.
This one is 1/6 comma.
In terms of what we're looking at, it's an experiment to see
if a circular chart (and what Earnest says is right) would be an easy reference for tuning, not a chart that tries to display theory. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 12 Dec 2014 10:35 am
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The distance from A to C# looked OK. e to A looks odd.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 12 Dec 2014 11:44 am
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| Earnest Bovine wrote: |
It is probably worth mentioning that the "circle of fifths" does not exist in meantone, JI, or most other non-equal temperaments. It is more like a line of fifths, not a circle. You cannot close the circle by joining the two ends of the line, because as you go one way the pitches go higher, while the other way they get lower.
That's why I usually write meantone temperaments as lines of text, not a circle.
| Tab: |
B# -12 cents
E# -10 cents
A# -8 cents
D# -6 cents
G# -4 cents
C# -2 cents
F# 0 cents
B +2 cents
E +4 cents
A +6 cents
D +8 cents
G +10 cents
C +12 cents
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It doesn't matter on steel guitar because we can move the bar and sound OK in any key. But on keyboard instruments, meantone tuning would only allow you to play in a very few keys. The E9 meantone temperament that I use would allow Keys like E, A, B and maybe D and F#. In other words these keys and the notes in them work OK on open strings of E9. |
The topology of tuning...nice.
Just had a thought that an properly conceived linear tuning would accentuate timbre differences in different grips and inversions ...giving another subtle creative aspect to the instrument.
Last edited by Tom Gorr on 12 Dec 2014 11:49 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 12 Dec 2014 11:47 am
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
| The distance from A to C# looked OK. e to A looks odd. |
All the fifths are the same width (697.5 cents) so E..A is no different from the others.
Just fifth is 702 cents |
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