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Just a suggestion.....am pretty sure it will work with a Day setup

For P4 since it has 3 rods. 12th string E-C#, 10 & 5 B-Bb (split tuned to give the maj7 with the A pedal)

P5 string 11 and ...

I see one "not neccessary" a flaw but something that will complicate getting the most out of an S12extE9 with some additional Very Happy

pedals.

Your LKL which lower E's to Eb is really needed f ...

Same mechanics as the underside of my S12extE9. A total breeze to modify/change or move things around. The pullrod itself has a pin which make the end that attach to the bellcrank look like a T. Gentl ...

@Fred Treece
I have often wondered why this would not be a standard on E9. Would it be asking too much from one pull to also lower string 9 to C# along with 2,4 and 8?

It would mess up the ability ...

There is a ton of "C6" stuff that can be found on an ExtendedE9 tuning.

Are we talking about a 6 pedal, 4 knee levers guitar ?

In order to give some good choices for the 3 extra pedals ...

It may be possible to reverse the split tuning to become a stacked resulting tuning altho I am not sure how stable it would work tuningwise.

Any that have a B-Bb lever on the 5th string split tuned ...

Ooops, my bad. Should have seen that the picture was posted by another.

The method of checking how much the pullrod need to move should still work tho.

B.Erlandsen

According to those pictures the pullrod for the 6th string lower seems to be too close(from what I can see) to the cross-shaft, which means that your knee lever would need a loooong movement in order ...

Can I add a split tune rod so that when the A pedal is engaged with pedal zero, it lowers that A# pull on zero pedal a small amount?

Yes it can be done. Had to think a little tho to figure a way th ...

After looking at your copedent It just dawned on me that P1 would be a really cool place for string 7 and 1 F#-F. It works really well together with your LKL E's to Eb changing the m7 voicing usually ...

My S12extE9 7+7 has 9th string D-D# on LKV. It is possible to also combine it with 8th string E-F# altho that would require a slightly longer movement of the LKV.

8th string E-F# by itself would al ...

Drop your 9th string down to C#(use as root) w hopefully a lever on the right knee.

At 1st fret you gonna be able find a Dm7 add the B-Bb lever and turn this chord one into a Dm6(substitute for G7) ...

From what I can see on those pictures, the guitar is only missing two pullrods. It should be possible to move pulls to different knee levers if wanted without too much trouble.
Many setups do raise ...

If you press both A+B pedals and keep em pressed, your heel should not need to lift more than maybe 1,5" to fully engage the vertical knee lever. If you need to lift your heel more then your vert ...

The further away(hole location) the pull rod is from the return spring, the more likely it is to get issues with the raise finger moving at the end of the pull(lowering down to C#).

Make sure your ...

If you temporarely remove the spring for the knee lever then your 4th string E should drop to Eb

Your C pedal (if adjusted correctly ) should then when pressed raise 4th string up to E before 5th s ...

If the spring wasnt there then your 4th string should drop to Eb. The spring is there to engage the lever to a physical stop "somewhere" that will pull the 4th string up to E

Pushing the ...

Ratios would not neccessary be the same since the other lever most likely have a different length of throw in order to lower string 2 from D# to C#

Be aware that the nylon tuner only decide when th ...

Id might consider dropping 7 halfsteps down to an A9 so I could have a low E at the 10th string. Not sure what string gauges would be needed tho. It would for sure need a wound one for the 6th string ...

Slow down, make sure you know where your fingers have to go before you start moving them. From one chord to another....there are options...staying on the same strings? or moving to a different set of ...

A LKV that lower both B strings would normally only lower those two strings one half step down to to Bb.

It may or may not give a C note on those strings if LKV is used together with the A pedal.
...

I do try to take advantage of the different mechanical abilities built into the pedal-steel and aim for melodies that isnt typical or obvious to play when playing regular 6 string.

My steel guitar ...

My Zumsteel S12extE9 have always raised strings 11, 6 & 3 G#-A on the B pedal. It makes all the open triads intuitive and a breeze to play.

I do however lower strings 11 and 6 from G#-G on my ...

Not beeing able to lower string 2 and 9 to C# while at the same time beeing able to raise E's to F is a serious disadvantage imo.

If E's to F are on the left knee one way or the other, then loweri ...

Translate C E G A into either C Eb Gb A or C# E G A# and you only gonna need 4 pulls. The standard C6 setup already does this diminished 6th thingy quite easily using P5 and P6 and with the use of som ...

Author	Message
Topic: My 'new' 12 string Zum
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 21 Views: 1917	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 25 Mar 2024 9:03 am Subject: My 'new' 12 string Zum
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 21 Views: 1917	Just a suggestion.....am pretty sure it will work with a Day setup For P4 since it has 3 rods. 12th string E-C#, 10 & 5 B-Bb (split tuned to give the maj7 with the A pedal) P5 string 11 and ...
Topic: My 'new' 12 string Zum
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 21 Views: 1917	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 25 Mar 2024 3:07 am Subject: My 'new' 12 string Zum
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 21 Views: 1917	I see one "not neccessary" a flaw but something that will complicate getting the most out of an S12extE9 with some additional pedals. Your LKL which lower E's to Eb is really needed f ...
Topic: 1980's Zum - bell-cranks?
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 7 Views: 568	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 19 Mar 2024 11:48 am Subject: 1980's Zum - bell-cranks?
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 7 Views: 568	Same mechanics as the underside of my S12extE9. A total breeze to modify/change or move things around. The pullrod itself has a pin which make the end that attach to the bellcrank look like a T. Gentl ...
Topic: Seeking recommendations for pedal pulls for C6 licks on E9
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 13 Views: 1029	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 17 Mar 2024 11:09 am Subject: Seeking recommendations for pedal pulls for C6 licks on E9
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 13 Views: 1029	@Fred Treece I have often wondered why this would not be a standard on E9. Would it be asking too much from one pull to also lower string 9 to C# along with 2,4 and 8? It would mess up the ability ...
Topic: Seeking recommendations for pedal pulls for C6 licks on E9
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 13 Views: 1029	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 14 Mar 2024 8:39 am Subject: Seeking recommendations for pedal pulls for C6 licks on E9
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 13 Views: 1029	There is a ton of "C6" stuff that can be found on an ExtendedE9 tuning. Are we talking about a 6 pedal, 4 knee levers guitar ? In order to give some good choices for the 3 extra pedals ...
Topic: "stacking" raises between pedals/levers
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 12 Views: 1292	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 26 Feb 2024 1:26 pm Subject: "stacking" raises between pedals/levers
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 12 Views: 1292	It may be possible to reverse the split tuning to become a stacked resulting tuning altho I am not sure how stable it would work tuningwise. Any that have a B-Bb lever on the 5th string split tuned ...
Topic: New MSA Legend tuning issue
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 21 Views: 2803	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 12 Feb 2024 3:13 pm Subject: New MSA Legend tuning issue
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 21 Views: 2803	Ooops, my bad. Should have seen that the picture was posted by another. The method of checking how much the pullrod need to move should still work tho. B.Erlandsen
Topic: New MSA Legend tuning issue
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 21 Views: 2803	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 12 Feb 2024 1:08 pm Subject: New MSA Legend tuning issue
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 21 Views: 2803	According to those pictures the pullrod for the 6th string lower seems to be too close(from what I can see) to the cross-shaft, which means that your knee lever would need a loooong movement in order ...
Topic: question about compensators
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 21 Views: 1597	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 3 Feb 2024 12:42 pm Subject: question about compensators
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 21 Views: 1597	Can I add a split tune rod so that when the A pedal is engaged with pedal zero, it lowers that A# pull on zero pedal a small amount? Yes it can be done. Had to think a little tho to figure a way th ...
Topic: Renamed: Losing the C pedal (second thoughts)
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 30 Views: 2577	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 1 Feb 2024 1:19 pm Subject: Renamed: Losing the C pedal (second thoughts)
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 30 Views: 2577	After looking at your copedent It just dawned on me that P1 would be a really cool place for string 7 and 1 F#-F. It works really well together with your LKL E's to Eb changing the m7 voicing usually ...
Topic: Raising the 9th?
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 4 Views: 1076	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 1 Feb 2024 1:07 pm Subject: Raising the 9th?
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 4 Views: 1076	My S12extE9 7+7 has 9th string D-D# on LKV. It is possible to also combine it with 8th string E-F# altho that would require a slightly longer movement of the LKV. 8th string E-F# by itself would al ...
Topic: B - Bb LKV examples?
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 12 Views: 1281	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 20 Jan 2024 7:42 am Subject: B - Bb LKV examples?
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 12 Views: 1281	Drop your 9th string down to C#(use as root) w hopefully a lever on the right knee. At 1st fret you gonna be able find a Dm7 add the B-Bb lever and turn this chord one into a Dm6(substitute for G7) ...
Topic: Help needed with unconventional copedent - LDG 3x4
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 7 Views: 806	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 17 Jan 2024 5:50 am Subject: Help needed with unconventional copedent - LDG 3x4
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 7 Views: 806	From what I can see on those pictures, the guitar is only missing two pullrods. It should be possible to move pulls to different knee levers if wanted without too much trouble. Many setups do raise ...
Topic: Vertical Knee Lever
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 8 Views: 1533	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 13 Jan 2024 3:33 am Subject: Vertical Knee Lever
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 8 Views: 1533	If you press both A+B pedals and keep em pressed, your heel should not need to lift more than maybe 1,5" to fully engage the vertical knee lever. If you need to lift your heel more then your vert ...
Topic: MSA Classic, 2nd string lower not low enough
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 15 Views: 1165	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 10 Jan 2024 3:17 pm Subject: MSA Classic, 2nd string lower not low enough
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 15 Views: 1165	The further away(hole location) the pull rod is from the return spring, the more likely it is to get issues with the raise finger moving at the end of the pull(lowering down to C#). Make sure your ...
Topic: MSA Sidekick - setting up the knee lever
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 8 Views: 1216	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 6 Jan 2024 2:02 pm Subject: MSA Sidekick - setting up the knee lever
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 8 Views: 1216	If you temporarely remove the spring for the knee lever then your 4th string E should drop to Eb Your C pedal (if adjusted correctly ) should then when pressed raise 4th string up to E before 5th s ...
Topic: MSA Sidekick - setting up the knee lever
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 8 Views: 1216	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 5 Jan 2024 5:13 am Subject: MSA Sidekick - setting up the knee lever
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 8 Views: 1216	If the spring wasnt there then your 4th string should drop to Eb. The spring is there to engage the lever to a physical stop "somewhere" that will pull the 4th string up to E Pushing the ...
Topic: SKH dilemma!
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 4 Views: 955	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 17 Dec 2023 10:15 am Subject: SKH dilemma!
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 4 Views: 955	Ratios would not neccessary be the same since the other lever most likely have a different length of throw in order to lower string 2 from D# to C# Be aware that the nylon tuner only decide when th ...
Topic: Tuning E9 an octave down
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 15 Views: 2330	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 8 Dec 2023 11:16 am Subject: Tuning E9 an octave down
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 15 Views: 2330	Id might consider dropping 7 halfsteps down to an A9 so I could have a low E at the 10th string. Not sure what string gauges would be needed tho. It would for sure need a wound one for the 6th string ...
Topic: Good exercises to practice grips?
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 16 Views: 3216	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 30 Nov 2023 3:26 am Subject: Good exercises to practice grips?
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 16 Views: 3216	Slow down, make sure you know where your fingers have to go before you start moving them. From one chord to another....there are options...staying on the same strings? or moving to a different set of ...
Topic: Dekley question
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 4 Views: 723	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 27 Nov 2023 5:01 am Subject: Dekley question
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 4 Views: 723	A LKV that lower both B strings would normally only lower those two strings one half step down to to Bb. It may or may not give a C note on those strings if LKV is used together with the A pedal. ...
Topic: Ex-Guitarists - How Do You Approach E9 Soloing?
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 13 Views: 2963	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 23 Nov 2023 3:34 am Subject: Ex-Guitarists - How Do You Approach E9 Soloing?
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 13 Views: 2963	I do try to take advantage of the different mechanical abilities built into the pedal-steel and aim for melodies that isnt typical or obvious to play when playing regular 6 string. My steel guitar ...
Topic: question for ext E9/ U12 players
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 8 Views: 1377	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 23 Nov 2023 3:16 am Subject: question for ext E9/ U12 players
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 8 Views: 1377	My Zumsteel S12extE9 have always raised strings 11, 6 & 3 G#-A on the B pedal. It makes all the open triads intuitive and a breeze to play. I do however lower strings 11 and 6 from G#-G on my ...
Topic: New steel purchase
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 9 Views: 3323	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 13 Nov 2023 3:36 am Subject: New steel purchase
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 9 Views: 3323	Not beeing able to lower string 2 and 9 to C# while at the same time beeing able to raise E's to F is a serious disadvantage imo. If E's to F are on the left knee one way or the other, then loweri ...
Topic: How many pulls is too many?
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 50 Views: 38602	Forum Section: Pedal Steel Posted: 26 Oct 2023 7:28 am Subject: How many pulls is too many?
Bengt Erlandsen Replies: 50 Views: 38602	Translate C E G A into either C Eb Gb A or C# E G A# and you only gonna need 4 pulls. The standard C6 setup already does this diminished 6th thingy quite easily using P5 and P6 and with the use of som ...