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Topic: Which one is more important for a good lick? |
Jim West
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Posted 3 Jun 2003 5:22 am |
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If you have a certain amount of specific notes in a given order what is more important in order to make a good, catchy lick?
Is it the notes themselves or is it the phrasing of those notes (the timing and accents put on them) that is more important for a lick to catch another persons ear? |
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Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
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Posted 3 Jun 2003 5:46 am
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The notes are the Big Mac
The phrasing is the Special Sauce
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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps
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Dave Van Allen
From:
Doylestown, PA , US , Earth
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Posted 3 Jun 2003 6:12 am
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then what are the lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions?
volume pedal technique, FX, timbre, context?  |
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Gary Lee Gimble
From:
Fredericksburg, VA.
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Posted 3 Jun 2003 6:23 am
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"then what are the lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions?"
fiber content
The stuff that moves.......notes
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Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
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Posted 3 Jun 2003 7:20 am
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But the KEY (pun intended) is the sesame seed bun.
We continue to joke, but I'm not sure I understand your question. Are you limiting the lick to a prescribed set of notes you must play and asking how important the phrasing and attitude are in the result? In that case it's the most important thing, since it's the only factor you have any influence on -- if I read what you asked correctly.
If you have control of what notes you play, I would consider that far more important than the phrasing.
But you do need both to make a Big Mac.
want FRIES with that????
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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps
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Jim Eaton
From:
Santa Susana, Ca
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Posted 3 Jun 2003 7:40 am
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Why am I hungry all of a sudden?
JE:-)> |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 3 Jun 2003 8:42 am
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When I first started on the road of Pedal Steel ( early 70's ) , My friend from NYC , the now Dr. Marty Friedman told me that there are many many fine players but there is one guy who can play more music with 1 single note than many can play with the entire guitar..
BE of course..
It's not how many you can play but rather how well you play any of them...
tp
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 3 Jun 2003 10:17 am
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Repetition is what makes something catchy.
A common songwriting technique is to repeat the notes from the 1st phrase for the 2nd phrase. Then on the 3rd phrase repeat the timing with the notes transposed by some interval. Then do something totally different on the 4th phrase. The result is that the original phrase "sticks" in the listener's memory.
Rhythmic figures (the timings of the notes) are repeated quite a bit on pop music (and in classical/baroque!). Sometimes it really gets on my nerves, but that's what makes a tune "catchy".
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 Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax |
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David L. Donald
From:
Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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Posted 3 Jun 2003 2:02 pm
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The chord pattern will dictate what notes can be played. The PHRASING is what differentiates that set of notes from another players use of them.
And a correct use of phrasing can allow a greater number of outside notes to be added.
Barbeque sauce is of course 25 cents extra[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 03 June 2003 at 03:03 PM.] |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 3 Jun 2003 2:44 pm
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"The lick" is what's most important! It's not the notes or the phrasing, but the overall sound and feel of what you're doing. "Faking it" (and doing it well) satisfies all but the most discriminating listeners.
I've heard 20 different players try to cop Weldon's "I'll Come Runnin'" lick. Most get pretty close, but not one (even Weldon, himself) can do it with the same phrasing he had on that day, at that particular time.
Get it close, and then move on. No one gets hired on the basis of one lick! |
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LARRY COLE
From:
LANCASTER, OHIO, USA
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Posted 3 Jun 2003 2:53 pm
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Onions are the raw bluesy feeling. Pickles are the bad notes. You keep belching them back up wherever you go.
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Playing For JESUS,LC. WILLIAMS U12, SHO-BUD PRO1,CARVIN TL60
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Jeff Evans
From:
Cowtown and The Bill Cox Outfit
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Posted 3 Jun 2003 3:32 pm
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Tone.
If I understood the question, phrasing is the only variable and it makes all the difference in the world.
Phrasing, I believe, is an under-appreciated part of what gives Lloyd Green's slow/medium tempo style such oomph. And why it is so seldom replicated. |
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Gary Preston
From:
Columbus, Ohio, USA
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Posted 3 Jun 2003 4:06 pm
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| i'm thinking that in one sense of the word that you all may be somewhat right ! but i've heard one player do a lick and then someone else do the same lick and it sounded totaly different ! does the steel touch come into play somewhere in here ? i also like the phrasing area. but then it's just my opinion ! G.P. |
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LARRY COLE
From:
LANCASTER, OHIO, USA
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Posted 3 Jun 2003 5:11 pm
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Come on Gary, start your own topic, you're following me around and bugging me!
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Playing For JESUS,LC. WILLIAMS U12, SHO-BUD PRO1,CARVIN TL60
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Gary Walker
From:
Morro Bay, CA
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Posted 3 Jun 2003 7:03 pm
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| It's not what you do, but how you do what you do. Playing less with taste is ten times better than playing a lot of monotony. You'll notice how Paul fills behind a singer, simple but tasty and much more effective. I've listened to players lately that play everything they know in every song and after a few songs, I need some relief. Honey is great to eat but too much makes you sick. |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 4 Jun 2003 2:19 am
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Scope out a book called "Music, The Brain, And Ecstasy : How Music Captures Our Imagination" by R. Jourdain. He actually derives some rules for what makes a successful and memorable melody - simplicity, pausing on chord tones, no big interval leaps etc. He uses examples from nursery rhymes, classical and pop music to make his point. Your local library can probably track one down for you to read for free if they have an inter-library loan program. Good book!
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David L. Donald
From:
Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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Posted 4 Jun 2003 5:30 am
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Larry I always thought the bad notes were "clams", and the pickles just garnish.
| Quote: |
| i've heard one player do a lick and then someone else do the same lick and it sounded totaly different ! |
and THAT IS phrasing in a nut shell. |
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Gary Preston
From:
Columbus, Ohio, USA
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Posted 5 Jun 2003 3:13 pm
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| thanks, david ( i think ). and larry you're a good man to follow !! G.P. |
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John Bechtel
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.
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Posted 8 Jun 2003 4:58 pm
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Just like it is with a joke! It's
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timing! “John”
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‘Til L8R, “Uh~” ƒƒ< “Big John” wknsg® http://community.webtv.net/KeoniNui/BigJohnBechtels
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Louie Hallford
From:
denison tx
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Posted 9 Jun 2003 4:07 pm
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Jeff Newman used to say( and I guess he still does) "there is thing as a wrong note". If I recall he used that statement in regards to adlibs.
I know nothing about the musical truth of the statment, but I know it changed my concept of getting outside the box when I began to think that way.
Another first that I attribute to Jeff Newmans teaching was my trying my first adlib. It has kept me out out of a lot of trouble. [This message was edited by louie hallford on 09 June 2003 at 05:14 PM.] |
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Jeff Evans
From:
Cowtown and The Bill Cox Outfit
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Posted 9 Jun 2003 4:15 pm
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| Quote: |
| ...does0 "there is thing as a wrong notes". |
That sounds like something Jeff Newman would say. |
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