Hilton vs. Goodrich

Marco Schouten · From: Amsterdam, The Netherlands

I have a Goodrich volume pedal, the model with the 10K pot and built in pre amp. How is the sound compared to the Hilton pedal?

------------------
Steelin' Greetings
Marco Schouten
Sho-Bud Pro III Custom

John Cadeau · From: Surrey,B.C. Canada

I agree with the Road Runner, I don't have a Hilton peddle, but I tried one. I normally use a Goodrich L10K. I do have a little problem with the price of the Hilton peddle though. Just being honest.
John.

Jerry Roller · From: Van Buren, Arkansas USA

If you check inside a Hilton you would see that it contains much more electronics than any "pedal". When you buy one you are buying much more than just a volume pedal. Dollar for dollar I feel it is more tone for the buck than any money you will spend. We think nothing of paying this much or more for effects units to make us sound better. I have yet to hear of anyone who had bought one and asked for a refund because they were not worth the price. They do carry a no questions asked 30 day refund if not happy.
Jerry

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I couldn't be happier with my Goodrich 10k. I'm not even tempted to try anything different.

Bill Sharpe · From: Hermitage, TN 37076, USA

Goin' with b0b on this one' I am totally content with my "wide body" Sho~Bud pedal, and 2 Goodrich 120 pedals.

If I didn't have these pedals and an Emmons pedal, MAYBE--- I'd consider laying out the big bucks for the Hilton pedal, which, from what I read is terrific.

Anywho, I like my pedals and for the amount of playing I do, I can't justify the expenditure for the Hilton pedal.

------------------

B#

[This message was edited by Bill Sharpe on 21 August 2000 at 03:41 PM.]

[This message was edited by Bill Sharpe on 21 August 2000 at 05:10 PM.]

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

I used my new Hilton pedal in the studio recently and it was absolutely, positively silent; that was wonderful. My pot pedal was starting to make a whooshing noise and the tape was picking it up. (Of course, that probably meant I needed to change the pot...)

Steve Dunwold · From: Long Beach

Hilton's pedal may be a great idea, but it's another gizmo to have to plug into an outlet, and for most guitar players who are used to $100 to $150 volume pedals, it's a bit hard to get used to the price. Keith? Why are they so expensive?

Mark Amundson · From: Cambridge, MN USA

Hilton's pedal too expensive? Actually, I thought Keith's pedal is too cheap price-wise compared to what guitar players pay for custom/boutique pedals. As an Electrical Engineer, I know the kinds of circuits Keith uses, and they are strictly the stuff you would find typically in recording studio consoles/studio processing as opposed to your run-of-the-mill, mass produced pedals.

I believe Keith works un-godly hours and has more orders than he should for a one-man shop. If anything, I advocate upping the price to make a living. If you want the best, a few hundred dollars for a noiseless volume pedal is reasonable.

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

I too think the Hilton Pedal, although relatively expensive for a volume pedal, is not over priced.

Although a "volume pedal is a volume pedal" your can't compare the Hilton to a passive pot model or the Goodrich 10K models or even to the old photo cell models (which were relatively priced equivalent to the Hilton pedal considering the price difference of goods twenty or thirty years ago compared to today's prices)

The electronic components are "over-engineered" to the point it is almost idiot proof.

Mark van Allen · From: Watkinsville, Ga. USA

I understand why these SEEM expensive...but we'll pay Thousands for the Guitar, 900 or a grand for an amp or rack system, hundreds for effects...and skimp on cords... I bought a whole set of MonsterCable Studio cords to replace those in my stage rig and the difference was very noticeable- the difference the Hilton Pedals make is way way way more apparent! I've been using one on my Mullen, and because of my stage setup have to use a different (Pot) pedal on my Sierra lap- every time I would A/B the Hilton with the pot pedal on the Sierra I would be almost sick with the loss in tone, clarity, definition, sparkle, etc. that I would have to go back to. Only solution- buy another Hilton. I have! Absolutely worth the money and an INCREDIBLY noticeable difference. Your bandmates and the audience will notice- and like any great piece of gear, you'll probably play better from being more pleased with your tone! On top of the quality, Keith is wonderful to deal with and totally stands behind his stuff. My Goodrich and Emmons pedals are for sale...

------------------
Mark van Allen-"Blueground Undergrass" Pedal, Non-Pedal, Lap, and Dobro

Steve Dunwold · From: Long Beach

I sprayed WD-40 on my Goodrich and it don't make any noise at all!

Steve Feldman · From: Central MA USA

One of the big arguments in favor of the Hilton that I've heard is that if you go directly from the steel into your amp (bypass the pedal), you will hear the signal attenuation that your volume pedal is causing. To be honest with you, on 2 steels, with 2 rigs, and 2 volume pedals, I don't hear much of a difference one way or another. If eliminating my volume pedal(s) doesn't have a big effect, it's hard to rationalize another cost outlay for the Hilton.

I've never played through one, so I don't know, but if it is supposed to simply take a noisy pedal out of the mix and not otherwise alter the tone, I don't see what all the hoopla is about. My $0.02.

Dennis Detweiler · From: Solon, Iowa, US

Steve...
Have you ever incorporated a 'match box' into your system? If so, have you heard any difference in the signal?
Dennis

Jay Ganz · From: Out Behind The Barn

....so now a potless Goodrich pedal(?) Hmmmmmmmm......

Keith Hilton · From: 248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721

A special thanks to all of you who have said kind words about my product. I feel very honored that you are using my product. I will always try and live up to your trust! I love ,and try to understand ,those who JUDGE my product without seeing it, or those who PRICE it without the slightest knowledge of the product. Competition is GOOD as it forces development and better products. I personally think there should be more people besides Goodrich and myself into steel guitar electronics. On the bottom of my pedal, there is a decal that says, "Patent Pending". I am prepared to defend it in Federal District court. All manufacturers and selling agents who copy my pedal patent-beware! I welcome ,and will support, anyone who has a new and different idea they have developed. To copy and steal is not the American way. I have no idea what Goodrich has done. I do wish them the best. As for my product, I do not plan on coming in 2nd place.

------------------

Jay Ganz · From: Out Behind The Barn

Well, there sure are TONS of rave reviews on the
Forum regarding Keith's pedal. A Forum "search" bears that out!
It remains to be seen how the Goodrich design will compare. We'll just have to wait & see.

------------------

Got That Steelin' Feelin'

Ann Fabian · From: Mesquite, Texas, USA

After posting this announcement and this announcement yesterday at Goodrich's request, here is an additional statement, from the designer and manufacturer, Goodrich Sound Company 8/25/00 and posted at their request:

"We probably haven't been too clear as to how our new pedal operates. In essense, this is how it works:

As the CD2 pedal moves betwen OFF and ON, conductive diodes are activated by a logarithmically varying exposure to an L.E.D. There is no physical contact between operative parts and when successfully implemented, serves better than any other method we know of, as a means of controlling the volume level of Mono or Stereo signals.

(We are not using infra-red technology).

Goodrich Sound Co."

Steve Feldman · From: Central MA USA

I agree with Bill. No on is 'judging' your pedal unfairly that I can see, Keith. In my case, I'm just using your own criteria to judge my own situation, and I have concluded that I - for now at least - am fine with my current gear. Your pedal has certainly earned enough of a stellar reputation on its own merit. I also think that patents expire, and that you'd probably do well to keep it in 'patent pending mode' for as long as possible, Keith.

To Dennis Detweiller: Yes, I use a Matchbox 7A on one of my guitars and it doesn't change my conclusion about my Goodrich vol. pedals having a minor (negligible?) effect on tone or noise in my case. The Matchbox does its usual thing in a allowing you to vary the gain and tone, but to me, it doesn't change the vol. pedal dynamics any that I can hear.

Funny thing is that I just got an old Emmons pedal the other day and I don't like it at all. I CAN hear a noticable decrease in signal strength with the Emmons in line, and maybe a slight rolling off of the highs. The Goodrich sounds pretty good to me by comparison. The Emmons is going up for sale.

c c johnson · From: killeen,tx usa * R.I.P.

I agree with Bobby.

------------------

Keith Hilton · From: 248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721

In detailing how the new Goodrich pedal operates, we believe they have copied the control part of our patent. Our legal team is in the process of notifying Goodrich. Those "dealers" who sell this new Goodrich pedal are in jerpordy of patent infringment, even though they are not the manufacturer. This patent protection in Federal DIstrict Court extends to the individual buyer, and even to a person who re-sells a used pedal.

------------------

Steve Feldman · From: Central MA USA

Keith -

I'd say that you are certainly entitled to protect your intellectual property rights, and I hope it turns out that there IS no inconsitency or dispute between yours and Goodrich's technology - I really do. But I can also say that your language in the above post seems to be an implied(?) threat that doesn't exactly endear the Hilton product to me.

You said:

Keith Hilton · From: 248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721

I'm going to quit double posting, Bob doesn't like it. Please read my response in Bar Chatter!

------------------

Keith Hilton · From: 248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721

Rayman, that is what this whole issue is about. Rest assured that I mean exactly what I say, "I intend on defending my patent in Federal District Court." If anyone has ideas about producing or selling ideas contained in my patent, they will have to hire lawyers and appear in Federal District Court.

------------------

[This message was edited by Keith Hilton on 26 August 2000 at 12:00 PM.]

Alan James · From: San Francisco, CA, USA

The "Patent Number" being claimed is in actually a Patent Application Serial Number.
That number confers no rights to the applicant. It only serves to identify a patent application.

An application itself does not guarantee the sucessful prosecution of a patent resulting in the issuance of said patent. A patent may or may not be issued. Also, the examiner can disallow almost any number claims made in the original application for a variety of reasons.

Until the patent is actually issued, infringement cannot occur since no patent has been issued. This is true even if an exact copy of the invention were to be made and sold.

Once the patent has finally been issued the inventor must PROVE infringement and may also be forced to defend the legitimacy of the patent. (A commonly successful defense in these cases is that the patent's claims were wrongfully allowed.)

Also, if no one has ever seen and examined the alleged infringing product, it is impossible to prove infringement.

Alan James

[This message was edited by Alan James on 26 August 2000 at 01:13 PM.]

Steve Feldman · From: Central MA USA

Alan - Then what rights are granted under 'patent pending' status?

From my personal experience, it doesn't take much of a change or alteration in technology or design to permit the awarding of an entirely new patent. In my work, I've seen patents awarded all the time with only minor design changes from the original. IMO, patent infringement, in most cases, is the result of a near exact duplication of effort.

[This message was edited by Steve Feldman on 26 August 2000 at 01:48 PM.]

Forum Index > Electronics	Goto page 1, 2 Next	Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic