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Topic: Help please! National lap steel. |
Mel Culbreath
From:
Waynesville, NC, USA
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Posted 6 Apr 2000 4:11 pm |
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I have a National 6 string lap steel I bought at a garage sale in New Orleans about 15 years ago. I have been told it is an Empire model because it is shaped something like the Empire State Building. I have also been told it is a New Yorker model. It has four controls: MASTER CONTROL;NATURAL HAWAIIAN;FULL TREBLE;FULL BASS. The body is wooden, painted black and the top is overlayed with three layers of bakelite, two white and one black. The fretboard is black bakelite and the 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th, 12th, 15th, 17th, 19th, 21st and 24th frets are numbered with Roman numbers III, V, VII, IX, XII, III, V, VII, IX, XII respectively.
All the controls work except the FULL TREBLE. It doesn't seem to have any effect at all when turned. The other three controls are scratchy, but the guy at the local music store put some kind of control lubricant in them and they are quieter now, but far from perfect. He couldn't find new controls that would fit because I was going to have them replaced. Have any of you had any experience having controls replaced on old guitars. Is it impossible? It is otherwise in good condition and stays in tune and plays well. The case is good too. Can anyone tell me the correct name of this model is and approximately when it was built? If I change my mind about going to the trouble of renewing the controls and want to sell it, how much do you think it is worth? It is a good instrument, but is not mint.
Thanks,
Mel |
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Ian McLatchie
From:
Sechelt, British Columbia
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Posted 6 Apr 2000 4:33 pm
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Mel: The instrument you describe is a New Yorker. The top plates are actually cellulose, and the fretboard will either be ebonoid or metal, depending upon the age. New Yorkers are certainly one of the most beautiful and stylish of laps steels, and a great player too. Prices are all over the map, although I'd say generally these instruemnts are still relatively undervalued, compared to some other high-end lap steels.
There should be a serial number on a tag on the back of the neck. Post the number, and someone can tell you the year of production.
As for the tone control, any good guitar tech should be able to provide a suitable replacement pot. My advice, though, is simply to bypass the pots. The guitar will sound considerably better for it.[This message was edited by Ian McLatchie on 06 April 2000 at 05:36 PM.] |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 6 Apr 2000 4:34 pm
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It's a National New Yorker (first made as a tribute to the Empire State Building, hence the shape). I've got one too. They were made from about 1937 until the early 60's. There should be a small plate with a number on it on the underside, up by the tuners. What is that serial number?
The tone control knob "Hawaiian, Chimes, Harp" does not work as a graduated tone pot, as in a standard electric guitar. Rather, it is a tone selector switch with 3 distinct positions. I had mine replaced with a standard tone pot, and completely rewired a couple of years ago. It was shot when I got it... unplayable. I also changed the screw-on mic connector to a standard 1/4" jack. I needed for it to be "stage-worthy" and reliable, as I play it on gigs occasionally.
Check on www.ebay.com to see what they are selling for. I don't think that they are particularly valuable. I've seen mint ones selling in the $300 to $400 range, and junks like mine sell for much less. The art deco work is fabulous, and the tone is quite good.
Good luck and enjoy.
dougb www.dougbsteel.com
[This message was edited by Doug Beaumier on 06 April 2000 at 05:36 PM.] |
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Mel Culbreath
From:
Waynesville, NC, USA
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Posted 6 Apr 2000 5:12 pm
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Ian & Doug,
Thanks so much for the replies.
Mine doesn't have a serial number plate. Instead, stamped into the wood under the neck where I looked for the plate is the number B976.
The tone is clear, but doesn't have the sustain of my Mullen PSG and I have to turn the amp up quite a bit higher to get the same volume level as my PSG.
Ian, I should have thought of your suggestion of bypassing the controls. This would probably increase the volume level some and give a cleaned signal.
Doug, glad you mentioned the screw-on connection. Mine has a hole which has been plugged with a rubber stopper near where the cord jack is now located. That explains why the extra hole. A previous owner put a standard jack on it to replace the screw-on connector and plugged the original hole where the screw-on connector was.
Mel
[This message was edited by Mel Culbreath on 06 April 2000 at 06:14 PM.] |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 6 Apr 2000 9:39 pm
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B976 doesn't fit into the National serial number sequence. If the "B" were a "V" it would be from 1947.
dougb |
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Brad Bechtel
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 7 Apr 2000 8:05 am
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Actually, Doug, it does make sense. The numbering system used on the small metal plates was used from 1947-1963 or so. This guitar was probably made in 1935 or 1936, when the "MASTER CONTROL;NATURAL HAWAIIAN;FULL TREBLE;FULL BASS" controls were present. They switched to the more common HAWAIIAN:CHIMES:HARP tone control in 1937.
This particular model was actually referred to as the Electric Hawaiian model; it wasn't called the New Yorker until 1937.
At least that's the way I'm reading my copy of Gruhn's Guide to Vintage Guitars.
I just got a 1950 New Yorker myself. It was a hassle finding a cord with the amphenol RF connector (screw on type connector) - does anyone have a good source for these? I used Angela Instruments.
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Brad's Page of Steel:
www.well.com/~wellvis/steel.html
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars
[This message was edited by Brad Bechtel on 07 April 2000 at 09:30 AM.] |
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Elaine Olson
From:
Maui, HI 96790
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Posted 7 Apr 2000 11:24 am
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I bought a cord with a screw-on connector
at Elderly Instruments. (www.elderly.com)
It doesn't fit as well as the original
(doesn't screw all the way in) but it works
ok.
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c c johnson
From:
killeen,tx usa * R.I.P.
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Posted 7 Apr 2000 12:12 pm
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This is a new yorker alright. I played this one from 1948 to 1950. There was a japanese boy about 15 I guess that loved that guitar, I was stationed in Hiroshima , and when I had to leave Japan I gave the guitar and a 1046 Epiphone amp to him. Real good guitars.
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c c johnson
From:
killeen,tx usa * R.I.P.
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Posted 7 Apr 2000 12:15 pm
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you may want to check this. The new yorker model under a diff name was sold either by Sears or Wards. A friend of mine has one he purchased in 1948 and I'll see wich store sold them
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Mel Culbreath
From:
Waynesville, NC, USA
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Posted 7 Apr 2000 1:11 pm
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I found a one page list of instructions printed on a weathered piece of paper in the case of the guitar. The instructions explained how to use the various controls to obtain differing tonal effects.
At the bottom of the page was:
YOURS FOR BETTER MUSIC
NATIONAL-DOBRO CORPORATION
Thanks to all who have taken the time to contribute to this topic.
I am continually amazed by the information available to us from other users of this forum. Many thanks, b0b. I received my copy of the "Northern Lights" CD a couple of weeks ago and love it.
Mel |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 7 Apr 2000 3:33 pm
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oops.... Thanks Brad,
I, too, have Gruhn's Guide to Vintage Guitars... and I failed to read the section on serial numbers fully. The B prefix dates his instrument between 1936 and 1938.
Mine has a number plate with a G suffix.... 1940-42
About the connectors... most guitar repair shops can order them and make up a cord for you. Those connectors recently went up in price, I understand... like $10 each! The music store where I teach has ordered them for me in the past. I'll check and see if we have any extras in stock.
dougb
www.dougbsteel.com [This message was edited by Doug Beaumier on 07 April 2000 at 07:34 PM.] |
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George Keoki Lake
From:
Edmonton, AB., Canada
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Posted 12 Apr 2000 9:39 pm
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| I'll just reiterate what others have said. From your description, that guitar is a New Yorker model. I owned one briefly back in the late forties. That screw-on jack was a real pain in the butt as the center solder would constantly wear down and the guitar would cut out at the least expected times. I changed it to a standard phone jack. Did the same with a National double neck a few years later. I really liked the old Nationals and that New Yorker model was neat...wish I had one today. My wife says 11 guitars is enough already ! ha ! Enjoy! |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 13 Apr 2000 7:01 am
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I too had the National New Yorker, but did not know it was called that until this forum came into being. Bought mine almost brand new (with amp; case and amp were in a light tweed covering), in Chicago, in 1946. It was one beautiful and great sounding steel. Wish I had never sold it. I believe I sold it in 1954 or there abouts for a Fender triple neck. Never did like the Fender, but I had to have more than one neck. Much tinnier than the National which had a more mellow JB sound to my ears.
The comments about the amphenol connector are sooo true. The solder joint on the hot lead would wear down in a very short time and make a loose connection causing the signal to cut out. Hated that.
I would strongly suggest to anyone who has one to have it converted to the phone jack instead. So you can use standard guitar plugs and cords.
Walk with Jesus and all things will be good,
carl |
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