Whats the Protocol?

Paul Warnik · From: Illinois,USA

In the course of my selling items on this forum in the past-Inquiries have often been made to me by (interested) persons asking for more info and pictures of the item for sale-my usual reply is that I don't have photos but am totally willing to give the prospective buyer a complete "hands on-top to bottom" honest description of the instrument-I learned many years ago from my dealings with vintage instruments that many who request pictures are just "tire kickers" who really don't care to buy because they are just "browsers" or "dreamers" That is why I try to cut through the B.S. by always offering the 24HR approval period for inspection to the buyer-Also in attempt to be as fair as possible in a "first come-first served" basis-I have in several instances had to check back on emails received and postings on the Forum thread of the item for sale to see who actually was first to state their full intent to buy the item and at what time that was-It seems proper to me then that the sale of the instrument belongs to the first person to say that they WILL BUY IT and not to someone who previously expressed mere "interest" or a request for pictures-Is that not the way it should be?

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

Should be to the first person who offers to buy the item at the advertised price.

Ron ! · Posted 22 Aug 2004 2:59 am

I think that people are carefull these days because there are to many scammers roaming the i-net.Most of the steel players do want photo's of the guitar.They want to exclude the possibility that they are buying a bag full of air.

But IMO it should be the first person that offers to buy the Guitar

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Peter · Posted 22 Aug 2004 3:26 am

You can weed out most of the Tyrekickers by just posting a picture on the Forum.
Once they see the picture, they probably won't contact you if they are not keen.
This will save you a lot of work!

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Peter den Hartogh
1978 Emmons S10 P/P; 1977 Sho-Bud D10 ProIII Custom;
1975 Fender Artist S10; Remington U12; 1947 Gibson BR4;
Internationally Accredited 3D Animation Academy

Chris Boyd · From: Leonia,N.J./Charlestown,R.I.

I like to see what I am buying first,and usually don't offer to buy UNTIL I feel that the seller is on the up and up....In this instance with the Sho Bud,it WAS unclear as to who has the first shot since I asked for pictures here on the PGF,and I suppose Paul is correct...It just gets a little sticky,because I did E the seller with serious intent,and didn't hear back from him.

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Sho-Bud Pro III Custom
'39 Regal 37 Dobro
50's Gibson BR-9
Sho-Bud Pro I
40's Vega lap steel

Savell · From: Lakeland FL

.

[This message was edited by Savell on 29 May 2005 at 06:46 PM.]

Dana Duplan · From: Ramona, CA

I think pictures up front is a good idea, just to be as certain as possible that the item is what the buyer is expecting. The approval period is more than fair, but then the issue of who is responsible for shipping charges arises. With vintage dealers it is customary for the buyer to cover all shipping. So, with the rising cost of having items shipped, I want to be as certain as I can that I'm getting what I expect. The problem also arrises (even with reputable dealers and sellers) that there is an issue with the instrument that got overlooked--IMO, it is unfair to hold the buyer responsible for an oversight. I have had it work out several ways--seller pays all shipping because it was their error in description, buyer pays all shipping because it's the dealers policy, the shipping charges are split. For those that don't have a digital camera, it is easy now to have pics developed to a disc at Rite-Aid, etc. If you are selling a nice item, it warrants the time and small expense needed. Also, digital cameras are reasonable now. Posting pics to the Forum is a great time saving idea, but I generally save the pics on my computer, email them to myself, and then just forward those emails to interested parties. I agree that sometimes the "tire kickers" can waste some of your time, but on the other hand, the biggest purchases I have made have been when I was just "kicking tires"!!
DD

Tom Olson · From: Spokane, WA

A deal is not made until a potential buyer makes a bonafide offer to buy AND, the buyer receives notice of your acceptance of his/her offer.

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

I always try to give the person with the first response the right of first refusal at the posted price. Only seems fair to me. I don't have any way of knowing if they are a serious buyer or just shopping. Most times, subsequent emails reveal their intent. Sending out pics and answering a bunch of emails is just part of the process that goes with offering items for sale. JMHO

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

When I sell something it goes to the first guy that says "I'll buy it". Expressing interest does not get somebody in line.

Paul,
You generally sell some truly rare and amazing instruments at very fair prices so you can do whatever makes you comfortable. If you don't have the patience for tire kickers than don't bother with them.

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Bob
intonation help

George Kimery · From: Limestone, TN, USA

In my normal business, I build things to order with a 50% deposit up front. Almost daily, I have to explain to a customer that without a deposit, I don't have an order. We are only talking about an order. They understand fine and over the years, I learned the hard way, that is the way it has to be.

David Higginbotham · From: Lake Charles, Louisiana, USA

In all fairness to the "tire kickers," I want to see pics of anything I plan on buying. In some instances, I have changed my mind on a potential item of interest after receiving the pics. Other advantages of obtaining pics:

1) In the event the package is lost during shipping, they help when filing a claim.

2) The buyer failed to properly describe the item being sold. (People have different definitions of mint, excellent, poor condition etc.)

3) Should it be necessary to file some time of claim or tort in the transaction, the pics will serve to protect the buyer.

These are only a few reasons that pics are important to me. Yes, I am guilty of requesting pics and not buying the particular item. Usually, the pics are the determining factor. As for wasting my time when someone asks for pics, I feel it is my responsibility to provide prospective buyers with pics and I always have them readily available upon request. To coin a phrase, "a picture is worth a thousand words!" In fact, I always list "pics available" on my postings. I find it to be a very minor inconvenience to help ensure a happy transaction for all involved.

If one has a store selling to the public, certainly one wouldn't stop all of the prospective buyers at the door and simply state what items are for sale and please show me the money or leave! As for who actually gets the items first, I will sell to the first person with a firm offer and I decide this by the time of the email or posting on the forum. I will then post that the sale is pending arrival of funds. I allow one week to receive the funds before relisting the item. I can not usually in "good faith" purchase something from anyone not willing to take the time to provide me with pics of an item I am interested in buying unless I know and have dealt with that person previously.

Just my 2 cents worth.
Dave

[This message was edited by David Higginbotham on 22 August 2004 at 02:15 PM.]

Paul Warnik · From: Illinois,USA

Bob H-Thank you for those kind words-I am proud to know very well that there are some fine gentlemen on this forum who have done business with me that would totally concur with you about my reputation-I am not all against sending or asking for photos-especially if there are condition issues of the item which may affect value-Photos can be deceiving-I do have a camera but that does not make me any kind of great photographer

Herb Steiner · From: Spicewood TX 78669

Photos are important in any sale, and if a seller requests them with a firm offer of purchase, I'd consider that potential buyer to be first in line. Assuming that the photo request was contained in a statement like "I want to purchase the instrument you're describing. If the photos show the guitar/amp/whatever to be as you describe, we definitely have a deal. Full payment will be sent immediately upon my examination of the pictures. I also assume the 24 hour approval condition applies."

If the statement is "I used to own one of those, and I'd like to have one again. Send me some photos, and I'll definitely think about it," sorry, no deal yet. Looking for a serious buyer, please.

Much more important to me is the reputation of the seller. If the guy has had dubious deals with friends of mine, I'll generally want my ass covered or I'll pass on the deal. If I know a seller to be upstanding, reputable, and thorough in his description of the item, I'll go ahead on the gentleman's honor. I've sold instruments to forumites sight-unseen and they've been happy. I've dealt with other forumites sight unseen and have been very happy.

I've also "learned my lesson" in other deals. One recent deal was a trade in which the guy I swapped instruments with requested a trade back if he was unsatisfied. I agreed to that. Turns out what he sent me was, IM expert O, mis-described regarding the model of the guitar and its condition, so I decided I didn't want the instrument. He flat refused to trade back when the shoe was on the other foot, even when I offered to bear ALL shipping costs for both of us, and told him he could keep the lesson material he badgered me for as well. Like I said, "learned my lesson" on that one. The deal turned out "kinda okay," because I managed to fix the instrument to an acceptable level with a reasonable amount of bucks (around $100), but the double-standard deal left a bad taste in my mouth, so it's "never again" with that guy.

OTOH, I've sent several thousands of dollars to Paul Warnik over the years for instruments sight unseen with only the MOST POSITIVE of results. These transactions also grew into one of my most valued friendships. Likewise with Mike Cass. You can take what these guys say about what they sell to the bank. I hope the folks that I deal with feel the same way about me.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

[This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 22 August 2004 at 04:35 PM.]

Paul Warnik · From: Illinois,USA

Herb-thanks for saying that-I kinda got out of the picture thing probably because of Mike C and the not just thousands $$$$ but tens of thousands $$$$$ in transactions between us-A good hands on description over the phone can be better than pics when it comes from a reliable seller-I did not post this in any attempt to bolster my own reputation-but rather to solicit some feedback of how others handle the determination of how long does a previously interested party retain "first dibs" when another who is ready to buy now offers the asking price?

Lefty · From: Grayson, Ga.

I agree with Peter. Picures up front are allways a good thing. The more pictures and better quality the better. It also helps sell, or up the bid for nice pieces.
Lefty,
Dekley D-10
Sho-Bud LDG

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