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Topic: Derby changer finger not returning |
Christopher Robison
From:
Nova Scotia, Canada
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Posted 5 Apr 2024 2:55 am |
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Hi. I have a Derby D-10
when I engage my LKR lever (4 & 8 lowers) and my C pedal (4 & 5 raise) simultaneously and then proceed to disengage my LKR before my C pedal, my LKR snags. It usually happens only for a second but sometimes it will snag indefinitely unless I disengage my C pedal. Also, when it returns it makes a click sound. if I disengage my C pedal first everything is fine. I understand that this is an issue with the LKR changer finger getting caught on the C pedal changer finger but I'm unsure how to fix it. I actually did fix it temporarily at one point by sort of bending them apart but they drifted back together and I don't want to mistreat the mechanics.
any obvious ideas? |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 5 Apr 2024 6:30 am
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| One thing to check is the steel spacer behind the nylon tuner at the endplate window. These will mushroom out sometimes and cause the pull rod to hang. I had that happen when I had my Derby. |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 5 Apr 2024 8:26 pm
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You want to check the pull rods under the guitar, A rod may be dragging on another rod, Or a bell crank causing the problem.
You want to look up at the rods and bell cranks, Or use a mirror.
When the guitar is turned upside down, Some longer rods will move around differently and change positions.
Good luck finding the problem and cure, Happy Steelin. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 6 Apr 2024 2:59 am
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In the same area that Jerry is talking about the spacers, I'd have a look at whether the threaded portion of a rod is passing through the hole in the finger. Could be a replacement rod cut wrong, could be that there is a missing spacer.
There are dozens of possibilities. Without having the guitar or lots of pictures in front of me, it's just a guessing game. |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 6 Apr 2024 7:45 am Re: Derby changer finger not returning
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| Christopher Robison wrote: |
...Also, when it returns it makes a click sound... I actually did fix it temporarily at one point by sort of bending them apart but they drifted back together and I don't want to mistreat the mechanics.
any obvious ideas? |
No obvious ideas, but you might try tightening the lower-return spring on String 4. Don't over-do it and keep track of how far you turn the screw so you can put it back if this doesn't fix it.
This might get you going, but it probably wouldn't be addressing the true problem which is that, based on hearing an odd click, the lower-finger or its rod is binding in some way when it should be moving freely. That's the thing to hunt down. Try turning the guitar over and working the pedal and knee lever by hand to replicate the problem. Is that click definitely coming from the changer? Or is a rod catching where it passes through the hole in the changer?
This is an all-pull guitar, right? It sounds like you already know where the problem is since you fixed it before by 'bending them apart.' I assume you mean the raise and lower pieces of the 4th string's changer mechanism? It's possible that the rivet that connects the two pieces in the center of the changer has been bent out a little and there's slop between the two pieces. If you can get an eyeball on where, exactly that click is coming from, the precise point of contact, it might suggest a fix -- something less drastic than having to break down the changer to swap out the 4th string pieces with unsullied ones from, say, the 1st string.
And if you just can't figure it out, instead of voicing that augmented as BC and E-lower.... just do AB and E-Raise (F lever). Same notes and easier to do, and doesn't require split-tuning of the F note. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 6 Apr 2024 8:09 am
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| Jon Light wrote: |
| .....I'd have a look at whether the threaded portion of a rod is passing through the hole in the finger..... |
Just to clarify -- you do not want threaded rod to be passing thru the changer hole. A properly sized and threaded rod with a properly sized spacer will ensure that only unthreaded rod is going through the hole. Threading in the hole is begging for friction and hang-ups. |
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Christopher Robison
From:
Nova Scotia, Canada
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Posted 7 Apr 2024 3:29 am
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| thanks for all the input. after painstakingly watching the movement of the changer fingers, I've figured it out. when I engage my C pedal, for some reason it moves my LKR endplate down a hair- just enough so that it is actually getting caught on part of the metal housing surrounding all the endplates (excuse lack of terminology). I kind of just bent it again to fix it (which didn't make me feel good) but I feel like the permanent option would be to take it all apart and maybe file down where the endplate is getting caught or figure out why the LKR endplate is being pushed downward. Alas, I live in Nova Scotia, Canada where there are no pedal steel mechanics |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 7 Apr 2024 4:29 am
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| Christopher Robison wrote: |
| thanks for all the input. after painstakingly watching the movement of the changer fingers, I've figured it out. when I engage my C pedal, for some reason it moves my LKR endplate down a hair- just enough so that it is actually getting caught on part of the metal housing surrounding all the endplates (excuse lack of terminology). I kind of just bent it again to fix it (which didn't make me feel good) but I feel like the permanent option would be to take it all apart and maybe file down where the endplate is getting caught or figure out why the LKR endplate is being pushed downward. Alas, I live in Nova Scotia, Canada where there are no pedal steel mechanics |
Pedal steel guitars have hundreds of small metal parts moving in multiple directions, at all angles, in all too close proximity to one another.. Stuff that "clicks" catches, hangs up, abrades, wears.. on and on.. I have seen a hundred things exactly as you described... Something that at one time was fine, until it wasn't and started rubbing against something else, and became a problem.. I have solved these problems with a file,sandpaper, pliers, hammers, screwdrivers, wrenches, hacksaw, Dremels, bench grinders, taps,dies,drills, vices, a drop of motor oils, a fingertip full of white grease, and even a rubber band or paper clip... Its just what we do, or maybe I should say, its what we are forced to do...Especially when the guitars get old, are out of production, no more new parts,, etc etc.. Anyway, glad you got it sorted.. Don't fret about bending something out of the way on a pedal steel.. I have seen brand new factory installed parts on brand new steel guitars with parts that were "bent out of the way" before the guitar was even shipped out to its first owner. It just the nature of the beast... bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Larry Dering
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 7 Apr 2024 5:15 am
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| Christopher, would that be the stop plate? I would be investigating the movement and see what is worn or loose. I have a SD10 3x5 Derby and had an issue with may A pedal cross shaft pulling out of the frame bushing a couple years ago. I made a post on the fix that involved a couple washers and a spring. Not too involved. It's held up well. I have a split collar washer saved to wrap around the shaft for a future more professional fix. |
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