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Topic: 7-string D6 recommendations |
James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 17 Mar 2024 6:09 pm |
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I’ve got a 7-string tricone coming my way and I’m thinking of what to do what the extra string. I’ve been playing a friend’s tricone with nut raiser in Open D and DADGAD.
I’m thinking of throwing a 6 in the middle for a minor chord and more slanting possibilities, but should it be above the 3rd or below it.
LOW TO HIGH
DADBF#AD or DADF#BAD?
What do you all think?
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Modified Emmons GS-10 3X4 and too many iPad apps to list. |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 17 Mar 2024 9:52 pm
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DADF#ABD?
_________________
Modified Emmons GS-10 3X4 and too many iPad apps to list. |
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Joe A. Roberts
From:
Seoul, South Korea
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Posted 18 Mar 2024 5:28 am
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Having the strings in order like your last post is probably the best option, though having it out of order smack in the middle like your first one may be useful to you if you want to sometimes choose to avoid it and want to keep the open D top strings as they are.
You could also try:
D
A
F#
D
B
A
D
Which has a middle 6th, kind of like A6th with a high root on the top strint.
I haven’t tried that specifically, but my spidey senses are telling me that that would be the least intrusive to the D tuning you already know, plus better chord inversions IMO.
It would be a much darker sound than having the B string higher up though.
I don’t have much acoustic experience.
Wherever you add it, if the B string gets in the way and sounds out of place at a given point (and it very well might as you get used to it), it is worth trying to tune it up to C for a dominant 7th chord.
If you are getting to much of a muddy sound, you could also shift the whole tuning up to E.
Congrats on your new instrument!
Whatever you do, keep experimenting. There are often many answers to a given question  |
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Tim Toberer
From:
Nebraska, USA
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Posted 18 Mar 2024 6:15 am
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| Is it custom? Anything over 6 strings seems pretty rare for a tricone. I love 7 strings! I like the 6th in the bass which I can raise to b7 or drop to a 5th for alt bass. I go really low, right now, BEG#BEG#B Congrats! |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 18 Mar 2024 7:06 am
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| Joe A. Roberts wrote: |
Having the strings in order like your last post is probably the best option, though having it out of order smack in the middle like your first one may be useful to you if you want to sometimes choose to avoid it and want to keep the open D top strings as they are.
You could also try:
D
A
F#
D
B
A
D
Which has a middle 6th, kind of like A6th with a high root on the top strint.
I haven’t tried that specifically, but my spidey senses are telling me that that would be the least intrusive to the D tuning you already know, plus better chord inversions IMO.
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I'm pretty well versed in playing and arranging in alternating-thumb fingerstyle on regular/spanish guitar, so I was hoping to retain that "DAD" on the bass strings without having to "jump" other strings. Those three strings also give me all the 5th "power" chords, or course.
I also like the modal sound and use DADGAD a lot (again, on "spanish" guitar). I like this sound on dobro:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkEslSlW36M&t=84s
So, I imagine playing with DAD on the 5-7 strings and another D on the 1st. But, I'll try to be open to new ideas.
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It would be a much darker sound than having the B string higher up though.
I don’t have much acoustic experience.
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Darker is usually a good thing for me. I'm not much on playing in bright, happy major keys. I've been thinking of dropping the F# to F for an open-Dmin tuning, but the added 6th would get me a minor triad so I figured I'd keep the F# for flexibility.
| Quote: |
Wherever you add it, if the B string gets in the way and sounds out of place at a given point (and it very well might as you get used to it), it is worth trying to tune it up to C for a dominant 7th chord.
If you are getting to much of a muddy sound, you could also shift the whole tuning up to E.
Congrats on your new instrument!
Whatever you do, keep experimenting. There are often many answers to a given question |
I've thought about moving the whole tuning up to E as the scale length is 23" but I'm currently arranging a piece for a soundtrack and the musician I'm working with is already working on it in the key of Dmin. I guess I'll have to wait and see if D tuning and heavy strings works out with that scale length. Regardless, I'm planning on using a lot of open string drones so tuning to E won't work unless I transpose the piece for my collaborator. That's not off the table, just more work.
_________________
Modified Emmons GS-10 3X4 and too many iPad apps to list.
Last edited by James Mayer on 18 Mar 2024 7:37 am; edited 3 times in total |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 18 Mar 2024 7:10 am
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| Tim Toberer wrote: |
| Is it custom? Anything over 6 strings seems pretty rare for a tricone. I love 7 strings! I like the 6th in the bass which I can raise to b7 or drop to a 5th for alt bass. I go really low, right now, BEG#BEG#B Congrats! |
Yes, it's custom. There were three made of this particular model.
https://reverb.com/item/80642720-john-morton-7-string-lap-steel-2013-nickel-plated-brass
I took a risk as I don't like buying anything before playing it, but squareneck tricones are not showing up around here to try. I've only ever played a borrowed budget roundneck tricone with a nut raiser. The one coming to me has a shorter scale length, deeper body, and a hollow neck.
I hope it sounds like it looks.
Here's how it was built:
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=2086205&sid=b7f37cc5840bdbec8d075fea6bc78099
_________________
Modified Emmons GS-10 3X4 and too many iPad apps to list. |
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Tim Whitlock
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 18 Mar 2024 7:44 am
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| That is one very elegant looking instrument. Hope it sounds as good as it looks. Congrats! |
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Tim Toberer
From:
Nebraska, USA
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Posted 18 Mar 2024 9:27 am
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| I think these might be 23” scale. Please report back on how this thing sounds. I have a tricone project and I was nervous about doing a short scale, but I saw one of these online and thought it must work. Beautiful instrument, thanks for the link that could be helpful! |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 18 Mar 2024 9:35 am
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| Tim Toberer wrote: |
| I think these might be 23” scale. Please report back on how this thing sounds. I have a tricone project and I was nervous about doing a short scale, but I saw one of these online and thought it must work. Beautiful instrument, thanks for the link that could be helpful! |
In the last post of that link I sent pasted above, John Morton wrote:
"I have made other guitars with this profile, which is a Weissenborn shape reduced by 15%, therefore a 23" scale."
So, I'm thinking this one is 23". I'll report back when it arrives.
I'm curious, why were you "nervous" about that scale length?
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Modified Emmons GS-10 3X4 and too many iPad apps to list. |
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Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 18 Mar 2024 9:05 pm
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I played DADF#ABD for a while, and found it quite intuitive. Might be a good place to start.
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Current Tunings:
6 String | G – D G D G B D
7 String | G9 – D G B D F A D
https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database |
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Tim Toberer
From:
Nebraska, USA
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Posted 19 Mar 2024 5:47 am
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| James Mayer wrote: |
| Tim Toberer wrote: |
| I think these might be 23” scale. Please report back on how this thing sounds. I have a tricone project and I was nervous about doing a short scale, but I saw one of these online and thought it must work. Beautiful instrument, thanks for the link that could be helpful! |
So, I'm thinking this one is 23". I'll report back when it arrives.
I'm curious, why were you "nervous" about that scale length? |
When I started designing my tricone, one of the first decisions I had to make was what scale length? Every design element is based off that decision. I wanted a 23" scale, but had to look really hard to find any other examples. I found only one other builder who has made one and I can't recall the name. The problem I was/am worried about is the tension on the cones. There is significantly less tension on a 23" scale instrument compared to a say 25" scale. Less tension is a good thing if you are bending a lot of notes behind the bar, but could be a bad thing on a reso especially because they are so prone to rattles and weird noises etc, mostly in the area of the cones and the bridge. These problems would seem to be exacerbated by a short scale.
Anyway.. I felt much more confidant after finding a few examples of these gorgeous instruments. Here is the clip that convinced me it would work. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVaN00ck6EM
Last edited by Tim Toberer on 21 Mar 2024 5:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 19 Mar 2024 6:26 am
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| Tim Toberer wrote: |
When I started designing my tricone, one of the first decisions I had to make was what scale length? Every design element is based off that decision. I wanted a 23" scale, but had to look really hard to find any other examples. I found only one other builder who has made one and I can't recall the name. The problem I was/am worried about is the tension on the cones. There is significantly less tension on a 23" scale instrument compared to a say 25" scale. Less tension is a good thing if you are bending a lot of noted behind the bar, but could be a bad thing on a reso especially because they are so prone to rattles and weird noises etc, mostly in the area of the cones and the bridge. These problems would seem to be exacerbated by a short scale.
Anyway.. I felt much more confidant after finding a few examples of these gorgeous instruments. Here is the clip that convinced me it would work. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVaN00ck6EM |
Ah, understood. I watched that video, but there are quite a bit of differences in that instrument and the one I purchased. In the video, the cones are arranged in the traditional fashion and the body has less depth. The scale length might be different, as well. It's a 2004 and mine is a 2013 and, apparently, he built very few instruments the same way.
I don't know if you saw this, but the Reverb listing of the 2013 model has a video demonstration:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X_o3pD07pA
I don't get much information out of these videos because I play nothing like either of the players. They also never sustain a long and powerful note to demonstrate dynamics and sustain.
Tracking says it's arriving tomorrow and I'll report back.
_________________
Modified Emmons GS-10 3X4 and too many iPad apps to list. |
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D Schubert
From:
Columbia, MO, USA
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Posted 19 Mar 2024 8:00 pm
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If you're starting from D turning, Id be inclined to to add a the B in the upper triad, as you'd find in an E13 tuning.
D A D F# A B D lo-to-hi
If you're coming from G tuning, I'd but the E in the middle
G B D E G B D lo-to-hi
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GFI Expo S-10PE, Sho-Bud 6139, Fender 2x8 Stringmaster, Supro consoles, Dobro. And more. |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 20 Mar 2024 7:31 pm
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The scale length is 23”. I settled on DADF#ABD as the tuning. I might bring it up to E6 but it sounds great in D6 and I’m not sure how much cones can take. It’d probably be fine with the shorter scale length but the strings are the heavy 16-56 D’Addario EJ42 set with an extra .17 string tuned up to B.
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Modified Emmons GS-10 3X4 and too many iPad apps to list. |
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Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 31 Mar 2024 1:51 pm
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| James Mayer wrote: |
| The scale length is 23”. I settled on DADF#ABD as the tuning. I might bring it up to E6 but it sounds great in D6 and I’m not sure how much cones can take. It’d probably be fine with the shorter scale length but the strings are the heavy 16-56 D’Addario EJ42 set with an extra .17 string tuned up to B. |
I’m currently using DABDF#AD as my D6 tuning. It gives me the Bm7 with a low root on strings 5 through 1. You sacrifice the nice slide from the D6 to the D7 that you have when the B is on string 2.
Of course every tuning involves compromises, we just choose what works best for us.
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Current Tunings:
6 String | G – D G D G B D
7 String | G9 – D G B D F A D
https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database |
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Marc Muller
From:
Neptune,NJ USA
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Posted 1 Apr 2024 5:31 am
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| Allan Revich wrote: |
| James Mayer wrote: |
| The scale length is 23”. I settled on DADF#ABD as the tuning. I might bring it up to E6 but it sounds great in D6 and I’m not sure how much cones can take. It’d probably be fine with the shorter scale length but the strings are the heavy 16-56 D’Addario EJ42 set with an extra .17 string tuned up to B. |
I’m currently using DABDF#AD as my D6 tuning. It gives me the Bm7 with a low root on strings 5 through 1. You sacrifice the nice slide from the D6 to the D7 that you have when the B is on string 2.
Of course every tuning involves compromises, we just choose what works best for us. |
I use this tuning. And with a quick tune of the B to C, lots of 7th chord fun right under your bar. |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 1 Apr 2024 8:22 am
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| Allan Revich wrote: |
I’m currently using DABDF#AD as my D6 tuning. It gives me the Bm7 with a low root on strings 5 through 1. You sacrifice the nice slide from the D6 to the D7 that you have when the B is on string 2.
Of course every tuning involves compromises, we just choose what works best for us. |
I'm currently enjoying DADF#ABD but might try your tuning next. I'm finding that alternating thumb drone from D to D (string 7 to 5 to 7 and so on) to be as important as I speculated and I imagine re-programming my thumb to step over two strings, after years of alternating thumb playing, might be frustrating at first. I'll still give it a shot next time I need to change strings.
_________________
Modified Emmons GS-10 3X4 and too many iPad apps to list. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 1 Apr 2024 10:05 am
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Bear with me a minute, but imagining yet another closely related tunng, G6 = D G B E G B D.
To get D A D F# A B D, raise strings 6 and 3 to A, 5 to D, and string 4 to F#. To get D A B D F# A D, raise strings 6 and 2 to A, lower string 4 to D, and lower string 3 to F#.
Putting these tunings on top of each other thusly:
| Code: |
G6 = D G B E G B D
D61 = D A D F# A B D
D62 = D A B D F# A D |
Then to get all 3 tunings with the same set of strings, one wants to get the tensions reasonable for the pitch changes. So if you set tensions where you want them, equal, for D Ab C E G AG D, then you never have to raise or lower any string more than a whole tone from the base equal tension pitches to get any one of these three tunings, as you can see in the following table:
| Code: |
G6 = D G B E G B D
D61 = D A D F# A B D
D62 = D A B D F# A D
Set = D Ab C E G Bb D
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And of course, as Marc notes, you can add in 7th tones, and that doesn't throw this off at all. You can have your cake and eat it. I do this kind of thing all the time to be able to get multiple related tunings on a guitar, with reasonable string tensions on all of them, without changing the string gauges. And I really like to be able to go from D tunings to related G tunings, E tunings to related A tunings, and so on. I started doing this on slide guitar a long time ago, but it works equally well for steel. |
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BJ Burbach
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 5 Apr 2024 4:05 pm D's
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I remember using this for awhile, but can't remember where it came from.
DADF#ADF#
BJ |
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