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Topic: changing out my speaker on my mustang 3 modeling amp |
John French
From:
Louisiana, USA
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Posted 25 Jan 2024 12:08 pm |
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I am considering changing out the 12 inch speaker in my Fender Mustang 3 amp to the Travis Toy 12 inch speaker. I am doing this to reduce the weight of the amp and to get rid of the harshness of the speaker on the upper strings. Has anyone done this or do you see any issue that I might have. I have emailed Travis to see if his speaker has been installed on that amp.
Thanks,
John |
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Larry Dering
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 25 Jan 2024 2:00 pm
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| John, I considered doing this and have no doubt it will improve the steel tone. The YouTube guys claim it will hurt the modeling capabilities because the stock speaker is a neural platform that's tweaked by the ir built in to each model. I tend to agree here but our main goal is better steel tone. That said, I have 2 of these and got a decent tone with the 65 Twin Reverb model and the right amount of reverb and delay. There is a post with some comparison sound clips of a different speaker from one of our members. Do a search and you should find it. |
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Larry Dering
From:
Missouri, USA
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John French
From:
Louisiana, USA
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Posted 25 Jan 2024 7:30 pm changing speaker in my Mustang o3
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Larry,
That sounds amazing and wonderful, so much better than the speaker I have today in my Mustang 03. I know I am not the level player in the recording, but I did not hear any harshness at all. Thanks you so much for responding. This is a must get for me. |
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Larry Dering
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 25 Jan 2024 7:37 pm
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| John, I was tempted to put the TT in mine too. I have a few other 12s to try as well including the Texas Heat. Something I do is run one of the outputs from the Mustang into a power amp with a Peavey BW 15. The pair combined sounds awesome. |
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John French
From:
Louisiana, USA
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Posted 25 Jan 2024 8:46 pm Larry
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| I left a comment on the video. John Gould also used the Bassman. I was considering the Basslite 2012 but since the back is open on the Mustang Amp I was afraid that the speaker would not work correctly or would be damaged. I asked John if he used the 2012 and how it has stood the test of time. I would also like to know which speaker was the loudest. Thanks again. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 26 Jan 2024 6:20 am Re: Larry
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| John French wrote: |
| John Gould also used the Bassman. I was considering the Basslite 2012 but since the back is open on the Mustang Amp I was afraid that the speaker would not work correctly or would be damaged. I asked John if he used the 2012 and how it has stood the test of time. I would also like to know which speaker was the loudest. Thanks again. |
No, you won't damage the speaker, regardless of the cabinet design, as long as you don't play with high levels of distortion. (Bass speakers are more robust than guitar speakers because they handle more power).
How "loud" a speaker is depends on three things:
1.) The efficiency of the speaker (SPL level - higher is louder).
2.) The type of cabinet the speaker is in. Open cabinets have the lowest efficiency, but give a more clear and "airy" sound, and have less bass response.
3.) The impedance match; a correct match giving the most power. (Any mismatch will cause a loss in volume.) |
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John French
From:
Louisiana, USA
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Posted 26 Jan 2024 10:32 am
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| Thank you Donny. I checked the back of my Mustang 3, there is plenty of room for the speaker and I can definitely enclose the back if I want. The only thing I did not understand is the impendence. I will have to look that up. I assume that is a function of the actual amplifier. Thank you again for your help. I am leaning towards the 2012 since I can work on the back until I get the sound I like and it is about half the price of the other speakers I am looking at. |
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Larry Dering
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 26 Jan 2024 7:54 pm
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| John, you just need to know if the stock speaker is 4 or 8 ohms and buy your replacement to match. I believe the Eminence is an 8 ohm. My Mustang 3 is an 8 ohm stock celestion speaker. |
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John French
From:
Louisiana, USA
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Posted 26 Jan 2024 9:38 pm
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| I checked my Mustang 3 and the speaker is indeed an 8 ohm. Believe it or not I heard my first Travis Toy speaker tonight. It was a 12 inch and it sounded great. The mustang 3 is a 100 watt amp so I am not sure what that means since the TT is a 300 watt speaker. Unless I change my mind, I think I will try the Basslite first. The speaker is less than 5 pounds. I will take my time and see how much of the back I need to enclose and see how that sounds. I will also see how loud it gets. I will be playing my pedal steel at the American Legion and VFW type places. I will update this when I replace the speaker. |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 27 Jan 2024 5:56 am
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| Larry Dering wrote: |
| The YouTube guys claim it will hurt the modeling capabilities because the stock speaker is a neural platform that's tweaked by the ir built in to each model. |
In over 50 years of pro audio work I have never heard of a "neutral speaker" and those familiar with the actual science will tell you that no such thing exists in the real world. EVERY transducer has resonances, bandwidth limits, and impedance nulls, it's the nature of the beast. If the modeling amp truly replicates the amp being modeled there is no reason not to use the non-stock speaker you would use with the real thing. Any tale to the contrary is but marketing noise. |
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Larry Dering
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 27 Jan 2024 7:34 am
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| Dave, what they mean is a full range PA type speaker and not a typical guitar speaker that rolls of highs at 3k and has strong mids. I agree on your comment but to keep things simple I used the word neutral that means uncolored or less tailored to a specific use. We as musicians and especially steel players have a different requirement than a guitar metal or distortion player. I know a lot of it is hype to sell gear. |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 27 Jan 2024 9:56 am
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Obviously this is a misnomer as pretty much all functional PA rigs use multiple drivers and crossovers to distribute the spectrum to various frequency-optimized drivers to attain a full-range, reasonably flat response.
The closest thing to a single, flat "full-range" speaker is the JBL K and E series, but even they roll off radically above 6kHz, a full octave or more above the bandwidth of any single driver made for any purpose by current suppliers, including EV and Eminence, whose "Custom" JBL clone falls well short of the original in this regard. As you suggest, steel pickers have their own needs and whether you are playing through a 2020 ToneMaster or a 1964 Vibroverb, your speaker is a major part of the tone equation. You simply cannot model a vintage, JBL-loaded rig though a CTS speaker no matter what the marketeng department says.
My point is that if the amp modeling is accurate it should still produce the sound of the modeled amp WITH the speakers of your choice. There are, however, "speaker simulation" algorithms inserted into line outputs of some modeling devices, allowing you to model a cabinet full of Celestions through your JBL's if that's your thing,
but that is another can of worms entirely. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 27 Jan 2024 11:04 am
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| John French wrote: |
| The mustang 3 is a 100 watt amp so I am not sure what that means since the TT is a 300 watt speaker. |
This presents absolutely nothing to be concerned about. |
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John French
From:
Louisiana, USA
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Posted 27 Jan 2024 11:09 am
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| I ordered the Basslite 2012 today after a response to an email. The gentleman has been using this speaker in his Mustang 3 and loves it. He said he purchased another speaker and put in a different amplifier for a backup. He is a pedal steel player and loves it. I am so looking forward to getting rid of those harsh highs. Thanks everyone for there responses. I have learned an awful lot about speakers, sensitivity and watts. |
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Larry Dering
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 27 Jan 2024 2:18 pm
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Good choice John. Let us know how you like it.
Dave you are of course correct about that amp modeling hype. The Mustang is equipped with several IRs that simulate several different fender cabinets of your choice. I own a Tonemaster twin as well and it's a decent amp. It isn't exactly like my 2 old Tube Twin Reverbs but not that much different for having the speakers it's equipped with. My 135 watt twin had D120f JBLs. One was bad when I got it. I put a set of Emminence speakers in and kept the JBLs. Nothing sounds as good as those but they are heavy. |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 27 Jan 2024 8:58 pm
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| Larry Dering wrote: |
| I put a set of Emminence speakers in and kept the JBLs. Nothing sounds as good as those but they are heavy. |
That they are 😎 |
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John French
From:
Louisiana, USA
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Posted 1 Feb 2024 11:13 am
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| Installed the Basslite 2012 into my Mustang 3 amp. It worked like a charm. Took out four screws and unplugged the positive and negative connectors. The new speaker was an exact fit. The mustang 3 is a modeling amp and the different models shine through the new speakers. The top three strings are not nearly as harsh and with some of the amp options they are down right pleasing. Harshness and volume was two of the issues that plagued me. The new speaker is way louder than the speaker that was in the amp. I am not really a mechanical wizard, but this was very easy to accomplish. I now have a great sounding modern amp for $164. Thanks for the encouragement of those that made the leap before me. |
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Larry Dering
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 1 Feb 2024 12:35 pm
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| John that's fabulous. Glad the change worked in your favor. Have fun playing and enjoy your new old amp. |
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