C6th 1st string - ?

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

I know this is crazy, but every so-often, I feel like having the G on top. Not permanently - that D opens up so much - but when I hear something that was clearly done with the old ten-string tuning it tempts me.

IS there a gauge that might be capable of sounding halfway decent when tuned to either note?

I'm looking for a lazy solution! Smile

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Roger Rettig - Emmons D10s, Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and old Martins.
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George Duncan Sypert · From: Colo Spgs, Co, USA

12 Gauge plain works pretty good but you probably won't have the G# note unless you leave the pull rod loose until you want the G note and loosen it when you have the D. Hope that made sense. I just do without the G# note. I can always put the rod back when I want to.

Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

Yeah back when I played C6 Neck( two week notice neck...ha)
, just like George said I used the 12 also it went very nicely between the high G and down to a D no problems, matter of fact I think I did them both on this song 23 years ago LIVE in London>>>>
https://youtu.be/tcVeooHXId8?si=1U_6JQ996Zki5GFe
Ricky
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Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Thanks, guys.

I have never played that neck without a D on top. After seeing you mentioning the 'G#', I looked up some older setups.

It seems that it was standard to raise the 1st to G# on P5.

Why? It has no place in the 2/9th chord that is the main use of p5.

It's actually a flat-5th.

How might it have been used?
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Roger Rettig - Emmons D10s, Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and old Martins.
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George Duncan Sypert · From: Colo Spgs, Co, USA

Roger I play very little if any C6th but with a G# note on one an E on two and a B with knee lowered on three that would give you a major chord although I never thought of that till now. You would to ask someone that plays standard C6th.

Tony Glassman · From: The Great Northwest

If you have a 3rd string half tone raise on a knee lever (C—>C#), you can get the same voicing as strings 1,2,3 & 4 (i.e. A-C-E-G) by moving up 3 frets with your 5th pedal & the knee lever engaged on strings 2,3,4 & 5)

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Tony

I have that raise and wouldn't sacrifice the D string for anything. Getting the high G three frets up is in my DNA.

There are two pieces in particular that seem to me require the G string: Mike Smith's splendid Jesus Loves Me and Russ Hicks' (Barefoot Jerry) Two Mile Pike.

Mike's tune is not too much of a problem with a D at 1, but Russ' tune depends open pull-offs and open strings.

(I cab almost find '..Pike' in D using the current tuning but it's not quite right. )
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Roger Rettig - Emmons D10s, Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and old Martins.
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Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

When the G-G# change appears on P5, I don't think it is intended to be used with the other P5 changes - for instance, P5,6&7 will give a diminished chord on strings 1-4.
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Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

Herby Wallace had G for his first string.
I have a couple of his C6th courses. Very Happy

Erv

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

Doug Jernigan re-tunes his first string D up to G to play his solo Streets Of Laredo.

Greg Cutshaw · From: Corry, PA, USA

I watched Jernigan tune between D and G in a few seconds while playing an Emmons Legrande at Seymour's store. He used the .012 gage string for it. I do use the C to C# change a bit to get the G note three frets up. Some of the Emmons black album tunes and much of Pete Drake's C6 tunes require the high G string.

TRAP TRULY · From: Mobile , AL

I have often wondered if a Hipshot tuning peg or some variation of it that is used to drop the E string on 6 string guitars would work. It would be great if you could simply flip the lever to change the note at the tuner.

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Nice, Ricky!

What was the venue in London?
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Roger Rettig - Emmons D10s, Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and old Martins.
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Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

Herb Steiner · From: Spicewood TX 78669

One solution, however requiring a complete re-working of the undercarriage, would be to omit the traditional 10th string and move the entire tuning one string to the left.

This would make the tuning an Fmaj6/9 chord, low to high being: F A C E G A C E G D, with string 1 being the re-entrant note (similar to the F# on the E9 tuning).

I've considered this in the past but felt I was too into the modern tuning (D on s.1) to change over. Of course I have 5 knee levers on that tuning, so the C-C# change is de rigeur.
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My rig: Infinity and Telonics.

Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg?

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Ah, The Borderline - that's where I played with the Big E! I'll listen to that at my next dialysis treatment; it'll make the time fly by. Smile

Herb: You have a point and, with 12 strings, you can have it all. I love Rick Schmidt's D-12 set-up. He has the equivalent chromatic strings on C6th, mirroring those on E9.

I have to say that, at this point, the 10th string is my least-used on the back neck. Would I miss it? I'd dread the upheaval of changing all those pulls, though.

I just want to tinker occasionally with that high G so I doubt I'd make such a radical change at my age (said the man who's awaiting delivery of a new SD12 D13th!!!)
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Roger Rettig - Emmons D10s, Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and old Martins.
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Herb Steiner · From: Spicewood TX 78669

Greg Cutshaw · From: Corry, PA, USA

My 12 string Excel with changeover lever had all the strings in C6 Mode:

F
D
G
E
C
A
G
E
C
A

https://www.gregcutshaw.com/Excel%2012%20String%20Keyless/Excel%2012%20String%20Keyless.html

and a low E and B on E9th to boot.

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

The re-entrant pair of strings is a great idea, just like on E9. I shall live out my days in Uniland, but at least I have the equivalent of a high G. In B6 mode it goes

B E G# B D# F# G# B D# G# C# F#
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Herb:

If I wasn't prevented from taking show contracts by my dialysis schedule, I wouldn't dream of even monkeying around with pedal/KL changes on my standard Emmons D10, much less attempting this new D13th concept at 80 years old.

I'm more than a bit compulsive and, when I first looked at D13 (JC's), I jumped in an ordered a guitar! I've altered things a bit to accommodate my musical priorities but it's along his lines.

What I should have done was say to myself: 'That's clever - if I was starting now, that's what I'd have' and left it at that.

It's about to arrive! In my last 4.5 years of unemployed/medical retirement, I've probably done too much tinkering. Right now, I'm following Doug Jernigan's videos and pondering some of his extra pulls.

I'm viewing the new Williams D13th rather like a top-of-the-line Erector Set (Meccano in England) - I'll open the box and, metaphorically speaking, build a three-inch long wheelbarrow rather than the large-scale Queensborough Bridge of which it's capable.

Joking aside, I'm sure I'll enjoy it - at the very least, the thought of a P7 option on a 9th tuning (D9, of course; the left half of my new guitar) has always appealed to me. Jumping to 1 and 2 doesn't quite cut it.

I still wonder if I'd have done better to get a D12 but that ship has sailed.

Having said that, I have recently had a call to do a (fairly) local run of a show next Spring! My first instinct was to decline but I soon realized that I wanted to do it. I miss playing with others. I miss it all.

It may be six months away, but I bet I still take my Emmons D10. Smile

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Roger Rettig - Emmons D10s, Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and old Martins.
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Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Bill Cunningham · From: Atlanta, Ga. USA

FWIW, Maurice once opined here there was no way he could do without the high 5th note, or words to that effect. Obviously other greats feel differently.
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Bill Cunningham
Atlanta, GA

Andrew Frost · From: Toronto, Ontario

I don't play a lot of straight C6 but that G to G# change on pedal 5 has intrigued me for a while. I've incorporated the equivalent into some different tuning set ups.

Its a beautifully useful #11...

C6 wise, at fret 11 w/ P5 its C#9(#11) which is a really nice G7, 5 chord sub. It resolves to C6 up one fret.

The Major7#11 use is great too...
P5 w/ Cs raised to C#.....Think "Moon River" on the 4 chord....'WIDER THAN A MILE' ....(maj7 #11)

Also great for a kind of 'F lever' effect playing 3rds with the E string....

I would think having both the G and D would be the ultimate. Hmm Bb6?

Mike Wilson · From: Mansfield, Ohio, USA

Roger Herby Wallace and I had this conversation and he told me to use a 15 gauge string on the first string and as usual he was right. I could tune up or down from a D to G and back with the 15.

Mike Wilson · From: Mansfield, Ohio, USA

Roger Herby Wallace and I had this conversation and he told me to use a 15 gauge string on the first string and as usual he was right. I could tune up or down from a D to G and back with the 15.

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