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Topic: Benders on an A6 tuning? |
Paul Seager
From:
Augsburg, Germany
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Posted 21 May 2023 12:58 am |
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I'm planning to upcycle a Framus Bali 8 string, mainly because the bridge has began to buzz, the pickup is lacking in tone and output and the tuners are all but unusable.
For the bridge, I am pretty much decided on a Certano roller model and this brought me to thinking about adding benders. Problem is, I play primarily A6 and I cannot think of a sensible use of benders except, maybe, on strings 7 & 8 to give a low dom 7 and 9. This would create a Leon E13 effect ( obviously it would be an A13,) on strings 3 - 8.
Any other suggestions?
_________________
\paul
Bayern Hawaiians: https://www.youtube.com/@diebayernhawaiians3062
Other stuff: https://www.youtube.com/@paulseager3796/videos |
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D Schubert
From:
Columbia, MO, USA
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Posted 21 May 2023 4:52 am
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I bought the Certano benders to experiment with D tuning, raising the 2nd and 3rd strings to make a G chord. As shown in many videos. I continued experimenting, with lighter gage strings and other tunings. I ended up with an E6 tuning that raises to A with the two benders. Some of the same elements as E9 pedal steel
E
B - C#
G# - A
E
C#
B
That's not what you're trying to to with A6, but maybe useful for you thought process
_________________
GFI Expo S-10PE, Sho-Bud 6139, Fender 2x8 Stringmaster, Supro consoles, Dobro. And more. |
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Paul Strojan
From:
California, USA
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Posted 21 May 2023 6:23 am
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I have an eight string Jackson Slide king with two benders. I have settled on an e9 tuning.
G#
E
B up to c#
G# to A
F#
E
D
B
There is a reason why the early pedal steel players settled the standard E9 tuning. The benders didn’t click for me until I put the 3rd on top. With that I can access he Don Helms E6 sounds easily. A word of advice you will need to play with string gauges a bit to synchronize your pulls. |
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Paul Seager
From:
Augsburg, Germany
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Posted 21 May 2023 10:11 pm
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Gentlemen, thank you both for your comments. You have confirmed what I suspected, that the benders are best used for the classic PSG bends. I will be leaving them off my shopping list for this project!
However, D. Schubert, you've now given me an idea for upcycling an old six string - thanks!
_________________
\paul
Bayern Hawaiians: https://www.youtube.com/@diebayernhawaiians3062
Other stuff: https://www.youtube.com/@paulseager3796/videos |
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Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 22 May 2023 9:20 am
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A thought…
By tuning to Dmaj7 you could use the benders to bring the D strings back up to E. One bender = Dmaj9.
Two benders = A6
_________________
Current Tunings:
6 String | G – D G D G B D
7 String | G9 – D G B D F A D
https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database |
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Paul Strojan
From:
California, USA
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Posted 22 May 2023 2:46 pm
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| Paul Seager wrote: |
Gentlemen, thank you both for your comments. You have confirmed what I suspected, that the benders are best used for the classic PSG bends. I will be leaving them off my shopping list for this project!
However, D. Schubert, you've now given me an idea for upcycling an old six string - thanks! |
Yes but the classic pedal steel guitar bends came out of a desire to shift between A6, E9 and C# minor. The other thing that you could do is tune down to B 11 and bend back up to A6.
E
C#
A
F#
D# to E
B to C#
A
F# |
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Guy Cundell
From:
More idle ramblings from South Australia
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Posted 23 May 2023 12:47 am
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| Do the benders lower or only raise? If they lowered you could have the reverse of the PSG A & B pedal. That would be interesting. |
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D Schubert
From:
Columbia, MO, USA
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Posted 23 May 2023 3:44 am
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Here is the Certano website with photos and descriptions
https://certano.fr
_________________
GFI Expo S-10PE, Sho-Bud 6139, Fender 2x8 Stringmaster, Supro consoles, Dobro. And more. |
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Paul Seager
From:
Augsburg, Germany
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Posted 23 May 2023 11:19 am
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| Paul Strojan wrote: |
| The other thing that you could do is tune down to B 11 and bend back up to A6. |
Yeah I thought about that to. How easy / comfortable is it to play with the levers down?
Had another suggestion via PM to use the benders on strings 1&2 to get a D chord. I am seriously thinking about that one!
_________________
\paul
Bayern Hawaiians: https://www.youtube.com/@diebayernhawaiians3062
Other stuff: https://www.youtube.com/@paulseager3796/videos |
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D Schubert
From:
Columbia, MO, USA
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Posted 23 May 2023 11:37 am
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Just my opinion, it feels very awkward to play with palm pedals engaged. Ties your wrist to one location. That seemed to be a problem with the six-string D/G tuning.
Just my opinion, if you're already skilled with bar slanting you can do the same A -> D movement but you can't get the differential movement -- one pedal engaged, with the other on moving -- using a bar slant. You can even raise the C# -> D with a finger bend behind the bar.
_________________
GFI Expo S-10PE, Sho-Bud 6139, Fender 2x8 Stringmaster, Supro consoles, Dobro. And more. |
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Michael Johnstone
From:
Sylmar,Ca. USA
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Posted 23 May 2023 5:07 pm
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I too play an A6 8-string tuned like this
E
C#
A
F#
E
C#
A
G
The 7th on the bottom opens up some nice combinations for western swing and bluesy jazz like a Dom7#9 among other things. If I wanted to shred, I'd change the 1st string to a re-intrant 9th interval (the B that would by pitch, be between the 2nd and 3rd string).
If I wanted to do more pop standards, I'd swap out the 1st string for a re-intrant Maj7 (the G# that would by pitch be between the 3rd and 4th string). Those scale and color tones you can reach up and snag with your middle finger like the chromatic strings on pedal E9.
The rest I'd do with shell voicings and different kinds of slants (forward, reverse, staggered incremental, contrapuntal, compound 3 string, etc) which is the whole Zen of that kind of guitar. I've tried hand operated gadgets a few times and if they're close enough to use, they're in my way when I'm not using them and interrupt my picking when I do use them. I don't pull strings behind the bar either because you have to kinda change your bar grip and set up for that trick and there's no time for that. I need my hands free and in control of the bar, picks and muting at all times.
Here's my A6 tuning as described.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqYJKYWtbVw |
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Tim Toberer
From:
Nebraska, USA
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Posted 24 May 2023 2:18 pm
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Oh man I loved that! I recently "discovered" this tuning myself. Nice to see what someone with some real skill can do with it. Great insight. |
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Paul Seager
From:
Augsburg, Germany
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Posted 25 May 2023 12:57 am
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Michael, that was very enjoyable - couple of things you played I'll be checking out quite soon!
I do occasionally tune #8 up half a step to G for the dom 7 but my default is to keep the low F# for some funky minor chord stuff.
I think my conclusion is to go ahead without benders. Thanks to everyone for your contributions.
_________________
\paul
Bayern Hawaiians: https://www.youtube.com/@diebayernhawaiians3062
Other stuff: https://www.youtube.com/@paulseager3796/videos |
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Tim Toberer
From:
Nebraska, USA
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Posted 25 May 2023 4:58 am
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| Michael Johnstone wrote: |
The rest I'd do with shell voicings and different kinds of slants (forward, reverse, staggered incremental, contrapuntal, compound 3 string, etc) which is the whole Zen of that kind of guitar. I've tried hand operated gadgets a few times and if they're close enough to use, they're in my way when I'm not using them and interrupt my picking when I do use them. I don't pull strings behind the bar either because you have to kinda change your bar grip and set up for that trick and there's no time for that. I need my hands free and in control of the bar, picks and muting at all times.
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This is a bit of a thread drift, but that is some seriously sweet slanting! The CruzTone guitar appears to have a narrower nut and wider spacing at the bridge. I am not sure if this is an illusion, but I am curious if you or anyone feel this improves the intonation of slants? In my mind it would, but I can't confirm this with anything. I have gotten used to short scale 22.5 instruments with 3/8" spacing, which I really like, but intonation is always tricky with slants and not sure if a change could help. Sorry for the hijack.
On the topic of benders, I have never tried them and they look fun to mess around with, but they do seem like they would really intrude in the picking hand. Maybe they pivot out of the way if you didn't need them for a certain song? |
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