Home-made steel ID?

Paul Brainard · From: Portland OR

Hey so someone brought this steel to me for help getting it going. It's going to be a challenge - and I'm going to try not to get sucked in too deep, but I do want to help him get it working as well as it is likely to be able to. . it appears to have been built by someone with some pretty good skills, but certainly has some quirks!

First question, is there any chance anyone recognizes this steel or the workmanship and would have a lead for me to track down the builder?

One thing I am having trouble nailing down is the intended copedent, the thing is it doesn't have a consistent number of raises & lowers across the changer. It is meant for a particular setup. And reconfiguring it is more than I want to get into (beyond maybe a couple of pulls. . .) Clearly it is some kind of U-12, but not sure exactly which flavor - I don't play universal myself, although I know how it works. But for instance pedals 1 & 2 appear to be B & A (Day setup) but there is no C pedal - although RKR raises string 4 a whole step. There is a lock lever, but it raises string 3 and lowers 5, 6, 7! There is a boo-wah on p7, and p5 would be typical for a C6 - but not B6. Some of the knees seem to put it in an F or Bb diatonic, possibly?

I am uploading a copedent chart, approximately anyway - many of the changes are clearly mal-adjusted and may not be tuned how or where they are supposed to be. No history is available, so it is entirely possible someone else has tried to wrangle it into a more standard setup. There is one main LKL, then what I am calling MKL and MVK mid-neck, and then a pair of RK's.

If anyone has any thoughts, or an idea which Universal setup might work on this contraption, please throw me a line!

Paul Brainard · From: Portland OR

Paul Brainard · From: Portland OR

A better version of the setup. One bellcrank on P4 is missing the pull rod. . .

Ron Pruter · From: Arizona, USA

I think we've seen that gold emblem before - that's all I can rememder.
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Tucker Jackson · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

This looks like the same guitar. Was sold from a shop in Fort Collins, Colorado. But there's zero info on it:

https://www.musicgoround.com/product/41107-S000050925/used-no-brand-brandless-product-12-string-pedal-steel-pedal-steel

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

It's amazing how many times Sho~Bud is written on it. There is not 1 single piece of Sho~Bud parts that I can see anywhere.
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J R Rose · From: Keota, Oklahoma, USA

I THINK THIS IS A CHEROKEE MADE BY SMILEY WEAVER OF ADA, OKLAHOMA BACK YEARS AGO?? SOME ONE IS DREAMING TO THINK IT IS A SHO-BUD. J.R.ROSE
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NOTHING..Sold it all. J.R. Rose

J R Rose · From: Keota, Oklahoma, USA

PAUL, MAY HAVE BEEN SET UP FOR C 6TH. J.R. ROSE
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NOTHING..Sold it all. J.R. Rose

Paul Brainard · From: Portland OR

Tucker - that's the one!

Richard - yeah it's funny. I don't know if they were thinking "Sho Bud" is kind of a generic term for a pedal steel or what. Or maybe someone there built it on the side or worked on it or something? Who knows. .

JR - thanks for the lead!

Paul Brainard · From: Portland OR

Hey JR, I've been reading up on Smiley - found some other posts where it sounds like you may have contact information for him? If so and you wouldn't mind sharing it with me, maybe you can send me a PM - I'd love to find out if in fact it was one of his and what setup it was designed for. I think you may be right that it could have been more C6-based, but of course with a couple of extra strings and pedals compared to the usual ones.

Many Thanks!

Paul Brainard · From: Portland OR

Actually starting out with C6, the lock lever (which I had forgotten to put on my chart) makes total sense! It pulls it to an E9 tuning, then the first two pedals will be B & A for that. . . I am guessing the top two strings would be F# & D#, with pulls to make them useful on C6. . . this is actually a pretty cool concept!

J R Rose · From: Keota, Oklahoma, USA

PAUL, SMILEY LEFT US SEVERAL YEARS AGO. HE WAS A GREAT VOCALIST AND SHOWMAN AND A PEDAL STEEL PICKER. HAD A 30 MINUTE TV SHOW ON A LOCAL TV STATION FOR SEVERAL YEARS. PLAYED ALL OF THE LOCAL PLACES AROUND THE AREA. ALL WAYS ENJOYED HIM VERY MUCH. I AM NOT FOR SURE BUT I THINK HE WAS CHEROKEE INDIAN, A TALL GOOD LOOKING GUY AND ALL WAYS DRESSED TO IMPRESS. HAD A MUSIC STORE ALSO IN ADA, OKLAHOMA AND A COLLECTION OF GIBSON L-5'S. AND ALL WAYS A GENTLEMAN. AND GAVE LESSON ON STEEL GUITAR. R.I.P. SMILEY. J.R. ROSE
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NOTHING..Sold it all. J.R. Rose

Paul Brainard · From: Portland OR

Thanks JR, sorry I didn't get the chance to know him in person - but I have found a few videos of him playing C6 on his double-neck, he had a great style!

I like this "reverse" Universal setup, I'm gonna try to get it dialed in. Thanks for the help!

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

The gold badge is either a ladies brooch or a coat button. Laughing

I don't know who made that thing, but a ton of work and thought went into it...master machinist and assembler for sure. I wouldn't worry about the setup that's on there. Set it up yourself, or have someone else do it, getting the most you can with the parts that are there. Anything extra you might need or want will have to be made or jury-rigged from more common parts. That's a one-off if I ever saw one.

Paul Brainard · From: Portland OR

Donny - yes it has a ton of good workmanship in it. Heavy too! The only thing that really isn't functional is the pedal rods, they attach to the pedals with a piece that looks kinda like the little plastic clips that keep bread bags closed, which fit on to a short metal rod threaded into the pedal - nothing to really hold them on, so they don't stay at all. But I ordered a set of rods & ball joints from Michael Yahl so that should take care of it.

The emblem looks like it was cast in a mold made from some little pebbles or something. I did an image search on it but didn't find a match.

I spoke to the owner of the shop in Fort Collins that had sold it either to the current owner or the one he got it from - sent them an email asking for any history and he actually called me back to tell me what he knew (which wasn't much.) Apparently it had been on the floor there for years, many folks had been curious about it and they consulted every steel player they knew in the area but nobody could shed any light on it. He did steer me to one clue I hadn't seen yet, on the bottom of the pedal rack is another notation in red sharpie "Built for CLC by SHO-BUD". . . they had come to the conclusion that this meant the CLC gospel choir in Illinois, and that it was meant to be set up for sacred steel.

Personally I think JR's lead on Smiley Weaver is the best one so far, and clearly it is meant to be set up for "reverse" universal - C6 with a lock lever putting it mostly in E9 with a couple of pedals/levers for that.

Donny if you check out the changer end, you will see that it is not a standard triple-raise/triple-lower kind of mechanism. The strings have different numbers of raises and lowers. So while you could change it around some, the possibilities are constrained by that. Personally I think it's a cool enough concept to be worth trying out - also I don't want to get in too deep on switching it around.

Paul Brainard · From: Portland OR

Donny - yes it has a ton of good workmanship in it. Heavy too! The only thing that really isn't functional is the pedal rods, they attach to the pedals with a piece that looks kinda like the little plastic clips that keep bread bags closed, which fit on to a short metal rod threaded into the pedal - nothing to really hold them on, so they don't stay at all. But I ordered a set of rods & ball joints from Michael Yahl so that should take care of it.

The emblem looks like it was cast in a mold made from some little pebbles or something. I did an image search on it but didn't find a match.

I spoke to the owner of the shop in Fort Collins that had sold it either to the current owner or the one he got it from - sent them an email asking for any history and he actually called me back to tell me what he knew (which wasn't much.) Apparently it had been on the floor there for years, many folks had been curious about it and they consulted every steel player they knew in the area but nobody could shed any light on it. He did steer me to one clue I hadn't seen yet, on the bottom of the pedal rack is another notation in red sharpie "Built for CLC by SHO-BUD". . . they had come to the conclusion that this meant the CLC gospel choir in Illinois, and that it was meant to be set up for sacred steel.

Personally I think JR's lead on Smiley Weaver is the best one so far, and clearly it is meant to be set up for "reverse" universal - C6 with a lock lever putting it mostly in E9 with a couple of pedals/levers for that.

Donny if you check out the changer end, you will see that it is not a standard triple-raise/triple-lower kind of mechanism. The strings have different numbers of raises and lowers. So while you could change it around some, the possibilities are constrained by that. Personally I think it's a cool enough concept to be worth trying out - also I don't want to get in too deep on switching it around.

J R Rose · From: Keota, Oklahoma, USA

Paul, did you get in contact with Larry? If not let me know and I will see if I can reach him. J.R. Rose
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NOTHING..Sold it all. J.R. Rose

Damir Besic · From: Nashville,TN.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Pedal 5 string 8 should be -D.

Pedals 5, 6, 7, and 8 are standard U-12. I wouldn't change them.
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Paul Brainard · From: Portland OR

JR - No, not sure who Larry is! (EDIT: saw your PM, sure would love to see what he knows - thanks!)

b0b- you mean 4-7 - right, it would lower it to D from already lowered Eb. Also raise string 4 back to E. But 8 is not currently set up to make that first lower, although there is a lowering finger available for that. Also P4 doesn't raise the bottom 2 strings as you would expect - and there are no raises available there. Odd, since he did put pulls for the Boo-wah on there.

I suppose it could have been a E9/B6 universal, but if so it is pretty short on E9 changes. And the lock lever, at least how it came set up to me, really only makes any sense going from C6 to E9.

J R Rose · From: Keota, Oklahoma, USA

Paul, I have sent Larry Hamilton a personal email. I have not had contact with him since this time last year. Maybe I will here something. Larry is a fine steel picker, lived in Lubbock, Tx for many years. He is a commercial picker and can do it all. And I think bObs post says a lot. Smiley was a C 6th guy and love Curley Chalker. Their is no telling what has been done to that guitar, (as in tunings) thru the years. But you seem to be under standing it pretty good. I would look into Chalker stuff. And maybe even Julian Tharp. He will boggle your mind.
J.R. Rose
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NOTHING..Sold it all. J.R. Rose

J R Rose · From: Keota, Oklahoma, USA

Paul, Also check out Zane Beck of ZB Guitars and Bob White of Hank Thompson fame. He had a sound all his own and was around at the time that Smiley was playing the best I can remember. But Smiley was his own kind of picker. But everybody in those days stole a lick or two from somebody or a tuneing. Some pros would not let you get close to their guitar and they kept them covered up most of the time when not playing. Things are a lot different today. I know I grew up in that time frame. I was born in 1940 so I have seen a lot. Just did not know that at the time I was living in an amazing era. I saw Elvis come on the scene at 15 years old and what a change that was. Good Luck on your search. I will let you know if I here from Larry. J.R. Rose
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NOTHING..Sold it all. J.R. Rose

Bobby D. Jones · From: West Virginia, USA

It may be the guitar was set up to play a B6th or other universal tuning, And the lock takes it to E9th. Which would be the reverse of most Universal tunings.

One thing about the pedal rod hook up. Since they put a longer than needed shaft in the changer, Check if the pedal rod would hook in the opening between the the pedal shaft bars and stay in place.

Since it looks like a 1 0f a Kind hand build. Extra parts would be a problem. Any parts would have to be made.

Those leg lock collars with 6 flats are interesting. Never seen them before. They may have been custom made and chromed.

The front apron. That emblem I have seen before, I think its a dress coat button or security guards coat button. From the texture the front apron it is covered with some sort of Nyga-Hyde, And from the one picture, May cover the underneath side of the body too.

Good Luck on this project.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

As a C6th with a lock for E9th, it's a pretty interesting copedent. I would swap LKL and RKR, though. Using LKL with P7 would be pretty awkward (a combo I use a lot), and the E to F# would work better for E9th playing on LKL.
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Paul Brainard · From: Portland OR

Bobby - you're right, the rod connectors can hook on between the slots on the pedals & that keeps them in place! It's a little bit of a tight squeeze, and a couple of them aren't totally flat so they may bind. I think the ball joints will work better (and, perhaps by luck, they seem to thread into the same holes. . .) But this has allowed me to actually set it up and mess around a bit on it. Doesn't sound bad, needs some adjustment for sure.

Yes the legs are interesting too, very heavy - gotta be 5-8 lbs each! Almost seems like they were milled out of solid steel. The wood on the body is 1" thick - there is some kind of stamp that has been painted over, perhaps from a furniture maker, maybe the wood was repurposed from something.

Another potential clue I discovered, there is what appeared to be a serial number on the "control box" (which has the jack, a coil tap switch, and a tone knob that I still don't understand how it is wired up - it has an on/off at one end of the turning range but it seems like that actually puts the tone cap fully in the circuit at off, then when you click past that it gets fully bright & gradually darkens up again. . . unfortunately the post was broken off in shipping so it's kinda hard to tell for sure.) Anyway on a closer look, I think the serial number may actually be a phone number without an area code! 615-3107 ring a bell to anyone? Looked it up in Oklahoma (405) and it comes up with a lawyer in Norman.

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