Question about universal tunings.

Bill McCloskey · Posted 17 Feb 2024 7:41 am

I'm about to take possession of my first Universal tuning. it is in B6 tuning. I have noticed that in some universal tunings the 4th and 8th strings are tuned to E (https://www.williamsguitarcompany.com/E9_B6_Universal_Tuning.htm) and other universal tunings, the 4th and 8th strings are tuned a half step flatter, to a D#.

For instance David Wright's Bb6 tuning https://b0b.com/tunings/davidwright.html

If you raise David's tuning to B6, it is the same tuning as the williams tuning except for the 4th and 8th string.

Anyone explain the difference?

Tucker Jackson · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

I think it's personal preference based on the style of music you'll be playing.

A lot of universal players think of it as 'one big tuning.'

But there's another way to view all this, and it comes from the way the universal tuning developed.

At some point (late 60's? early 70's?), some smart players who played D-10 guitars realized that if you mentally or physically lowered the C6 neck a half-step down to B6... the notes on most of the strings on that neck would be the same as those on the E9 neck.
You can verify that here in these diagrams:
http://www.larrybell.org/id24.htm

If most of the strings were the same, why even lug around two necks? Couldn't the two tunings just be combined on one neck?

Yes. But achieving this "universal" E9/B6 combination required going from a 10 to a 12-string situation.

With a few hitches, the top 9 strings on the universal tuning were the same as 9 strings from the E9 tuning -- and the bottom strings of the universal mirrored the intervals of the basic C6 tuning... but pitched down a half-step to B6.

Therefore, a person who knew E9 could jump on a universal and play all the same stuff -- and also play the tunes they knew on C6 (provided they remembered to shove the bar up one fret since the guitar is tuned down to B6).

There were a few compromises required to achieve this combination of tunings. One was to delete the 9th string "D" from the E9 tuning. This note is typically gotten with a knee lever on a universal set-up.

The other compromise had to do with strings 4 & 8. On the E9 tuning, they were tuned to "E." But on the B6 tuning, in order to maintain the intervals from the old C6 neck, those strings needed to be tuned a half step lower.

Since they can't be tuned to E and D# at the same time, the player had to decide which way to go as the default (and get the other note with a knee lever, as needed). This is your question here in this thread.

For people who have played a lot of E9 and are going to continue to do so when migrating to the universal, it makes sense to make things E-centric and tune strings 4 and 8 that way. And when you want to shift over into B6 mode, you hold in a knee lever that lowers those strings to D#. This is a common way to configure things, popularized by steel instructor Jeff Newman and others.

For others who play more of the 6th tuning, having the universal tuning default to D# makes more sense (since holding in a knee lever to get this note gets tiresome). So, in reverse of the Newman arrangement described above, to move things from default B6 into the E9 intervals, a knee lever pushes the D# up to E.

I think the above was the mental framework behind the creation of the tuning -- but once people play a universal for a while, they tend to stop thinking in a binary way and don't think "I'm in E9 mode" or "now, I'm in B6 mode" and just think of it as one big tuning with tons of options.

As for Bb6 universal, my understanding is that most players set theirs up in a way that shares the bones of a typical E9/B6 universal, just tuned down a half. Having a root of Bb works well with horn-based music (swing, jazzier styles)-- as do 6th-style intervals. I think this is where David Wright is coming from so maybe he'll see this and respond.

Bobby D. Jones · From: West Virginia, USA

There are many different tunings for a 12 string guitar, Extended E9th, B6th, and Several different Universal tunings. And now Johnny Cox has thrown a D13th tuning into the mix.
When I got a 12 string in about 2015, I collected every 12 string tuning I could find. And quickly came to a conclusion.
A STEEL GUITAR IS NO PIANO. There is no standard tuning.
Just study the available tunings, pick out the one you want, And learn to live with it.
I chose Jeff Newman's S12 Universal, It is based on E9th tuning, Which makes it easy to move the basics of E9th to the tuning.
The B6th side, By engaging a knee lever. Also there was teaching material available, Till Jeff Newman's teaching materials seemed to evaporate from the scene.

Good Luck with your choice and Happy Steelin.

Raybob Bowman · From: S. Lake Tahoe, CA, USA

I was E9 player starting out on a Maverick. I saw Maurice Anderson give a seminar at music store in Palo Alto, demonstrating and explaining his new (1977) universal tuning. When getting a new guitar (Sho-Bud) I used Maurice's copedant with a few changes, mainly moving the C6 3rd pedal to knee lever opposite my "E9" lever as that was easy way to get my missing "E9" 9th string.

Later I changed copedant to add "E9" 3rd pedal and the "E9" E raise lever. I was slowly learning "C6" but was mainly an E9 player still. Later, I changed copedant again. Now I've moved the "E to F#" change to vertical left knee, "E to F" lever on LL lever, moved C6 1st pedal to left of my E9 pedals. I found that change used with "E9" 1st pedal gave me the same change as the C6 4th pedal (5 chord pedal). Also moved the c6 2nd pedal to LKR.

Now I have 4 of the 5 standard C6 pedals, along with all the major E9 changes, without having to move my left foot more than 1 pedal way from E9 AB pedals. Also added the Franklin pedal to pedal 4.

I was also realizing I never used the bottom string of my Uni 12, always interfering with the bass player in the band every time I did. Since then, I recently took my tuning. minus top and bottom strings, and converted a 10 string E9 4+5. Major chore but well worth it, just to shave off at least 10 pounds every load-in/load-out at gigs. Wink

_________________
Sierra U12 4+5 / 1933 Dobro / homemade Tele B-bender

Bill McCloskey · Posted 17 Feb 2024 12:50 pm

Tucker, that was a great explanation, Thanks.

Dan Kelly · From: Boston, MA

Hello Tucker! I agree with Bill. That was one of the clearest, cleanest and plain spoken explanation of "The Universal" I have heard. THANKS!
_________________
blah, blah, blah.
Hey You Kids! Get Off My Lawn!
blah, blah, blah.

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

What kind of Uni did you get, Bill?
We want pics!
What lever lowers your E's? Just curious.
Does it have a Lever-Lock? I think you would like that feature for when you play/practice in B6 for long periods of time.
I wouldn't worry about Bb6th. Basically Bb6th is more of a Jazz-player tuning highlighting the 6th side of Universal. It typically does not have an F lever. Instead you engage that lever when you want to play in E9th.
Have fun!

Bill McCloskey · Posted 19 Feb 2024 5:20 pm

I bought the Sierra that David Wright was swelling. I'll get it on Thursday and will post some pics then. Here is the copedent:

As you can see, the E's are already lowered and you raise them with RL. I'm really not thinking of it as E9 and B6 but more one large tuning with lots of options. I've already been spreadsheeting it and it is a really interesting tuning. I'll be playing more jazz standard stuff on it.

Here is the original listing https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=397987&highlight=sierra

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

Good job, Bill!
Those Sierra's are very easy to work on, should you decide to experiment.
I also have one very similar.
Jim Palanscar has many parts for these Steels.
Smile

Bill McCloskey · Posted 19 Feb 2024 6:43 pm

Good to know. I always have John Widgren work on my steels but good to know there are parts available from Jim. I think a universal might work better for me. I'm used to playing 12 strings. Been playing a 12 string superslide for years. And the problem I have with a D10 is shifting my body over when i change necks. having one neck and one set of pedals and levers might be a better fit for me.

John Alexander · Posted 23 Feb 2024 12:25 am

The Bb6 universal tuning seems to have been derived from a Bb6 non-universal tuning that was being used by Maurice Anderson, and perhaps others using the same or similar tunings so far as I know, around 1970 and who-knows-how-much earlier than that. It was non-universal insofar as it lacked the knee lever raising the D strings to Eb to obtain an Eb9 tuning, and it lacked the related A and B pedals. This Bb6 non-universal tuning had some similarities to the now most usual features of the C6 tuning, but had other unique features of its own, some of which have remained in the Bb6 universal tuning as carried on by Maurice and other Bb6 players.

Below is a link to an earlier Forum thread that traces much of the history of the Bb6 universal tuning, starting from Maurice's non-universal Bb6 tuning mentioned above, and showing how the copedent has evolved into various instantiations of the Bb6 universal tuning. Included is a reposting of an earlier, marvelous account by David Wright of his recollection of how the universal tuning was developed:

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=227795&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

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