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Topic: Give me the truth about the C6 neck |
Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 31 May 2019 1:37 am |
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reading above a few things come to mind.
Like a few others, I actually SOLD my S10 as it was preventing me from bringing a D10 to gigs.
The musical knowledge ( some call this theory) on C6 is exactly the same as the E9th, it's not a new entity. C,F and G on the E9th is still C, F and G on the C6th.
The E9th was very intimidating when we all first started, the C6th can be intimidating in the same way
The E9th requires knowing and playing from a few multiple positions to be somewhat proficient . The C6th requires knowing and playing from a few multiple positions to be somewhat proficient.
The E9th allows us to play extended alternate chords, the C6th is built on extended alternate chords, but doesn't have to be. Root chords and the family they reside in are still root chords. The literal proper spelling of each chord is not mandatory, knowing the proper family is, either neck.
The E9th tuning can be immediately referenced to the guitar neck, E. The C6th tuning is referenced to C, move the bar up 4 frets to E. Use the 4th fret as your home position if it makes us feel good !
Basic E9th lives with the AB Peds. Basic C6th lives with the 5 and 6 peds and a few home root positions.
The theoretical music is exactly the same, the voicings are different. It doesn't sound like Buck Owens.
After playing regular ( serious) with the C6th for a while now, I too would agree that there are some progressions that just lay better on the C6th. But it's not an overnight journey, it a simple study. Not a difficult study.
WARNING : Once we start the C6 journey, even in it's most simple execution, there is no going back!
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 31 May 2019 2:54 am
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Tony's thoughts are all good. The main difference I found tricky at first is that on the E9 most of the chords we play contain the root, whereas on the C6 they often don't.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Ron Hogan
From:
Nashville, TN, usa
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Posted 31 May 2019 3:19 am
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Here's an example I did a while back of taking a normal E9th tune and mixing some C6 in it.
Fun for me to do, plus flavors the tune in different ways.
SAMPLE
Regards,
Ron Hogan
Nashville, TN |
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James Quillian
From:
San Antonio, Texas, USA
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Posted 31 May 2019 3:51 am
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First, I don't play steel professionally. It depends upon the sounds a person appreciates and of course what the contract calls for. There are unique sounds on the C6 neck and I enjoy playing them.
My guess is that there are a lot of audiences that respond favorably to the C6 sound. There are certain classic sounds that people still want to hear even though musicians might be bored with playing them.
_________________
Curbside Jimmy's New Act
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlzieFLE5no |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 31 May 2019 4:14 am
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To add, I still have the high G (1st) string. Probably a carryover from my old lap steel days.
I've tried the D several times but lose licks and always go back to my "comfortable" G.
_________________
GFI Ultra Keyless S-10 with pad (Black of course) TB202 amp, Hilton VP, Steelers Choice sidekick seat
Cakewalk by Bandlab and Studio One V4.6 pro DAWs, MOTU Ultralite MK5 recording interface unit (for sale) |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 31 May 2019 8:14 am
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| Quote: |
| Give me the truth about the C6 neck |
I think the truth is that the 6th neck is actually way easier/faster to learn/play than E9th.
Overall, the tuning is more forgiving to "Intonation" issues than E9th.
The finger-snapping method of raking big fat chords that lay right across the middle 80% of the strings/tuning, make it way easier to get right to playing, as compared to trying to avoid strings 2,7,9 or whatever the E9th Tablature tells us to do while engaging xyz pedals/levers.
Any Western Swing song with a 1,4,5, - 1,2,5 - 1,6,2,5 - 3,6,2,5, progression, you can play along with almost instantly without even touching the pedals.
Relative Minor chords are just a grip of strings down from the Open One chord.
The Open 4-Chord and 5-Chord positions are also the 2-minor and 3-minor Chord positions.
Boo-Wha pedal is fun as heck!
7th's, Diminished, and Maj7th chords, are all over the place.
You can also play B6th (E's lowered) or A6th (AB down) very easily on S10 E9th if that is the primary tuning you currently have.
Jeff Newman has a Course called "C6th & Swingin'" and Part One is great for getting up to speed on C6th Basics. Part 2 uses Sweet Georgia Brown as a more in depth example. |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 31 May 2019 8:53 am
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I think it all comes down to the styles of music you (and the rest of the band) want to play. E9 is pretty universal; virtually everyone likes it to varying degrees. C6th, on the other hand, has a sizable, but somewhat smaller audience.
Many groups I've worked with don't seem to know how to play any chords beyond major, minor, and dominant seventh. My time spent trying to get a handle on jazz theory and progressions has been mostly wasted. The musicians you play with may present a roadblock to developing as a solid C6th player. Of course, there are exceptions.
If you're motivated to make money, make E9 your main focus. If the music calls for C6th it's great. But if you're not playing that kind of music then it becomes just an arm rest.
_________________
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. |
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Paul McEvoy
From:
Baltimore, USA
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Posted 31 May 2019 10:20 am
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Thanks for all the responses.
My interests in playing are kind of diverse, I have myself spread out pretty thin, trying to play some Django stuff on a Selmac and straight ahead jazz on the armpit guitar.
I've been playing C6 (now A6 but I think I'm going to go back to A6) lap steel for a while, and that's what got me to buying an Extended E9. I think I'll probably just stick with those two...C6 lap steel for western swing and E9 otherwise.
Anyway I enjoyed the responses.
Thanks
Paul |
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Kevin Fix
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 31 May 2019 12:23 pm
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| I am exploring all of the time. I love the C6. The more I play it, the more I love it!!!! I like to take songs I normally play on E9th and convert them to C6. Most of the songs work fairly well. Some do, some don't. Sure is fun though. The group I work with faces light right up when they hear me plugging in the C6 fills. Our lead player is a great picker so he can play some nice fills with me. It sure does add a lot of "Color" to a song!!! |
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Chris Tweed
From:
Cardiff, Wales, UK
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Posted 1 Jun 2019 3:22 am
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I guess I cheat. My C6 neck is an 8-string non-pedal set up in front of my S10 Encore. I'm a latecomer to PSG and, since I already play dobro, weissenborn and assorted lap steels, I'm too old to get my head around yet another tuning and pedals. I probably couldn't lift a D10 now without doing serious damage. Having two separate instruments works well for me.
I love the C6 sound and I haven't mastered pretend C6 on E9 yet. Besides, playing non-pedal can be a lot of fun.
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Gary Spaeth
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Barry Blackwood
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Posted 1 Jun 2019 9:07 am
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| Some years ago, it was almost imperative to play both tunings. Nowadays, there is almost no need for it in so-called "modern country"- besides, a talented E9 player can fake C6 pretty good.. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 1 Jun 2019 2:29 pm
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| Barry Blackwood wrote: |
| Some years ago, it was almost imperative to play both tunings. Nowadays, there is almost no need for it in so-called "modern country"- besides, a talented E9 player can fake C6 pretty good.. |
I haven't HAD to play C6 in a few years. You're right about having to play both necks back in the old days.
Modern country doesn't need it. I went over a year without even tuning it up other than the couple of times I changed strings, in Hope's that I might get to use it. I have switched from a D10 to Sd12 ext E9, but can pull out the D10 if need be. Trouble is, I have forgotten a lot of what I knew.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Rick Abbott
From:
Indiana, USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2019 3:03 pm
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I play in two bands. The country band does outlaw country and a bunch of the new-outlaw stuff. I use my C6 neck on two songs in a 4 hour night. The rock band does all sorts of songs...from Doors to Hendrix to western swing and blues to originals. Very diverse. I use my C6 neck on 1 in 3 or 4 songs. My setup has evolved to include a Wampler Velvet Fuzz and a B9 / Rt-20 organ sim. I use the C6 neck a ton for the blues organ thing and also distorted slide playing as well as playing it as intended.
I could not function well without my back neck. I tried to like the U12, but just couldn't get past the low strings feeling odd under my hands, it was the width of the strings when in E9 mode that eventually sent me back to the D10.
_________________
RICK ABBOTT
Sho~Bud D-10 Professional #7962
Remington T-8, Wakarusa 5e3 clone
1953 Stromberg-Carlson AU-35 |
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Ed Boyd
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2019 4:15 pm
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I like C6. C6 lap steel was my gateway drug into pedal steel but I never learned the C6 pedals. I treat the C6 neck like a lap steel with more extensions and use a lot more slants. Mostly because all my good teaching materials were for E9.
_________________
Laquered MSA Classic D10 8+5
Sho-Bud Pro 1
Various Dobro and Banjos
Fender Telecaster Guitars |
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Ken Metcalf
From:
San Antonio Texas USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2019 4:58 pm Western Swing on E9th
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https://youtu.be/p49rY9NyOSk
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MSA 12 String E9th/B6th Universal.
Little Walter PF-89.
Bunch of stomp boxes |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2019 5:18 pm
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I don't believe that a D-10 is necessary to play "both kinds of music". That's why I developed the D6th hybrid copedent, an S-10 tuned midway between the two necks with the pedals and levers of both.
6-string guitarists can play any kind of music. Their tuning can accommodate everything from hard rock to swing. Do you really believe that you need two necks (20 strings) just to move between 2 flavors of country music? I don't!
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 1 Jun 2019 11:46 pm
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What b0b is calling a hybrid is effectively another type of universal. It's in line with Buddy Emmons's thinking of the C6 as E6 down a third rather than B6 up a semitone.
If I were starting out I would try it, but I'm too firmly invested in B6/E9 already.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Bobby Nelson
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 2 Jun 2019 7:27 am
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At 55 yrs old, I decided I was going to learn Pedal steel, which I'd always wanted to. I played an 8 string console for a year, to get my right hand going while my Pedal steel was being built. I had a variation of C6 tuning on it, but was playing mainly E9 stuff with it.
So, at 57, I've had my D10 almost a year, and with very limited time to practice, I haven't really even touched the C6 neck. That being said, hearing John Hughey on C6 when I was young, is what originally got me wanting to play pedal steel. So, knowing that I'd be buying one pedal steel in my life, it was definitly going to have both necks. Now, finding time to learn both, with a 50-60 hr a week job, is my struggle. When I feel that I'm reasonably proficient on E9, I will tackle the back neck - but it's already there, ready to go, bought and paid for, is the point. |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 2 Jun 2019 8:17 am
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The bands I've been a part of over the past few decades have played nothing but popular "top-forty" type country dance songs you would hear on the radio. The band I'm with now plays country music dating back to the 1980s. All E9th. We do play All My Exes Live In Texas; but, the signature steel guitar parts are easily played on E9.
I played a D-10 for a while before switching to U-12 E9/B6, which I played for a long time. Those guitars are long gone. I've moved to lightweight S-10 E9 guitars. They do all I need them to do and my skinny arms and weak back are happy.
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Lee, from South Texas - Down On The Rio Grande
There are only two options as I see it.
Either I'm right, or there is a sinister conspiracy to conceal the fact that I'm right.
Williams Keyless S-10, BMI S-10, Evans FET-500LV, Fender Steel King, 2 Roland Cube 80XL's,
Sarno FreeLoader, Goodrich Passive Volume Pedals, Vintage ACE Pack-A-Seat |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 2 Jun 2019 9:11 am
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Many of us play C6 just because we like it and the music we're able to play on it. It's not out of utility or whatever the music requires, it's largely for our own enjoyment.
If I never get a chance to play any swing, jazz, big band etc. on the back neck out on a gig somewhere, I'll still always play it just for myself. If another person never hears it, it's just really not a concern.
My guitar, mandolin, keyboard and dobro playing doesn't get a large audience either...it's basically just because I enjoy noodling... |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 2 Jun 2019 11:10 am
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| Jerry Overstreet wrote: |
| ...it's basically just because I enjoy noodling... |
Dang. Now I have this craving for Thai food!
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Lee, from South Texas - Down On The Rio Grande
There are only two options as I see it.
Either I'm right, or there is a sinister conspiracy to conceal the fact that I'm right.
Williams Keyless S-10, BMI S-10, Evans FET-500LV, Fender Steel King, 2 Roland Cube 80XL's,
Sarno FreeLoader, Goodrich Passive Volume Pedals, Vintage ACE Pack-A-Seat |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 2 Jun 2019 3:48 pm
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b0b's point is well taken. They're both just tunings - no real limits on either apart from one's own inadequacies.
There's a little more sonic range to C6th, of course, given its bottom end strings but the notes you choose are up to you.
_________________
Roger Rettig - Emmons D10s, Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and old Martins.
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Tom Cooper
From:
Orlando, Fl
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Posted 2 Jun 2019 4:25 pm C6
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| I love C6 pedal steel. I will never sell my D10 Legrande because of it. However, for most of the stuff I am doing these days dragging around a 100lb pedal steel is just not practical. When I retire from day job I would like to get back to it, maybe find a regular gig with it. Had one a while back but my lap steel gig took over. For now my grab and go Emmons S10 student model is great. Lower E's and I can get some of that sound. But not all of it of course. I do miss it, but every week moving a D10 is just not happening. For now B6 on E9 will have to do. In theory, for me C6 is superior of the two. In practice E9 S10 takes it. Just cant deal with logistics. If I could set up and leave it at house gig or something. I need to be mobile. C6 single with pedals would be a gas. I would love to try that one day. |
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Bobby Nelson
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 3 Jun 2019 1:24 am
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| Quote: |
| C6 single with pedals would be a gas. I would love to try that one day. |
When I started searching for pedal steels to buy a couple years ago, I ran across one of those for sale - I think it was Damir's but could be wrong. It's the only single neck C6 I've ever seen. |
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