C6 Logistics Left Knees

Howard Parker · From: Maryland

When I had my new(ish) Carter set up I decided to add (C6)4th string changes to my left knees. I'm having a ball playing around, but, It is very awkward reaching across the guitar to reach P5/P6 and impossible to reach P7/P8 with my left foot.

I'm a short guy and have all but resigned to use both feet on pedals for those tunes that need the left knees and just ignore the volume pedal. On tunes that don't require the left knees I can move over to the "standard" C6 position.

Is this fairly typical for you folks with guitars set up similarly?

Inquirying minds..

hp

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Howard Parker
poobah@resoguit.com
www.resoguit.com
ListOwner RESOGUIT-L
03' Carter D-10

[This message was edited by Howard Parker on 27 May 2006 at 06:18 PM.]

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

I am assuming you added C6 changes to your E9 LKnees.
This would explain the distance issue.

Better to add 2-3 levers in the middle for C6.
Just my 2 cents.

Howard Parker · From: Maryland

Yep..

Too late. Gotta make do with what I have. I got the idea from a copendent listed on Mr Emmon's website.

hp

Michael Johnstone · From: Sylmar,Ca. USA

Using both feet on C6 is standard technique.

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

Using two feet IS a common practice on C6, but not because you can't reach the pedals. The reason many C6 players use two feet is to be able to combine P5 and P7 or even P5, 6, and 7 at once.

The levers in the middle are there for a reason -- as you found out, it is difficult (or impossible) to combine C to C# with P5 or P8 like you would want to do to exploit that lever change. Same goes for any of the 3rd and 4th string 1/2 step raises that Buddy has used for years. Much easier on their own in the middle, placed over the C6 pedals.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

John McGann · From: Boston, Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.

It's never too late to wrack up more credit card debt

Seriously, having left levers dedicated to the C6th neck set up in the middle really opens up the tuning.

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

The problem is solved with a Williams crossover. I use the same 5 pedals and knee levers on both necks. A lever at the left end of the guitar switches them from one neck to the other.

Howard Parker · From: Maryland

So...The challenge is made easier with $$$, eh?

Well, my arrangement will have to suffice for a while. It doesn't stop me from making music. It just requires a bit of planning...and daily stretching excercises.

hp

Dave Potter · From: Texas

No solution to the basic problem here, but, I'm sooo pleased to see I was not the only one to ever notice that the "industry standard" 8-5 convention so prevalent on today's instruments does present some issues if C6 changes are put on the left-most knee levers.

Bob Kagy · From: Lafayette, CO USA

Howard, if you're up for this, you might call Carter and talk with John Fabian about what it would cost for him to do the work of installing 2 C6th knee levers in the middle of the guitar.

No slur on b0b's beautiful guitar, but you may find the carter work affordable. I agree with others that it's really good to have those changes over your C6th pedals.

David Wren · From: Placerville, California, USA

Hey b0b, I'm liking those Williams crossovers more each day, makes a lot of sense, if you're playing a D10.

I put my P7 on a KL (only 7 total pedals), I got short legs too

So far this seems to work for me, but it takes a little getting used to.

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Dave Wren
'96 Carter S12-E9/B6,7X7; Twin Session 500s; Hilton Pedal; Black Box www.ameechapman.com

[This message was edited by David Wren on 31 May 2006 at 09:26 AM.]

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

Dave P,
The reason why is that, for MANY years the pedal assisted C6 tuning really only included ONE STANDARD KNEE LEVER: C to B on the 3rd string. The 8x5 setup reflects that older standard. Most D-10 players do not put C6 changes on their left E9 levers.

Buddy Emmons began raising 3 to C# -- as I recall, when he dropped his first string to D -- and also raising and lowering the 4th string 1/2 step and many followed suit. Buddy has had the same 8 and 7 setup for many years. There have been a few minor changes and experiments here and there but the 4 lever C6 setup has essentially become the standard for most serious C6 players. His additional C6 changes are located on levers separate from the E9 levers (which are over the A,B,C pedals where they should be) and the C6 levers are in a separate 'stall' in the middle of the guitar (over the C6 pedals).

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

John Bechtel · From: Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.

I stole my standard C6 changes from Bill Stafford's older 14str. Setup and have used those changes for quite a few years when I was still using the C6 Tuning, and I would do it the same even now! That part of te setup l©©ks like this, except for the LKV, which was my idea.
___LL–LV–LR–P4–P5–P6–P7–P8–RL–RR
D________C________________________
E________Eb____F__________________
C__D_______________________B______
A__B__B___________Bb______________
G___________F#________________G#__
E________F_____Eb________F________
C_____________________C#__________
A_____B___________Bb______________
F___________F#________E__________
C___________D_________A___________
This setup will allow almost any combination you might need and you never have to lift your right~foot off of the volume-pedal! [Thanks to Bill Stafford!]

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“Big John”
a.k.a. {Keoni Nui}
Current Equipment

Doug Seymour · From: Jamestown NY USA (deceased)

The C6th I used on a D10 Keyless Zum from about 1990 til I got an Excel keyless S10 in April of 2000 was having P7 on my RKL & I never used the right foot on the pedals. Kept it on the volume pedal! I only had P5, P6 on the floor, but they were physically Ps 4 & 5 on the steel along with the standard Emmons set up on Pedals 1, 2, & 3. I had all 4 knees working the C6th & E9th necks both. I'd love to try one of Bill Rudolph's cross over D10s. I went to St Louis to play one, but Bill didn't bring one to the 2004 show!??

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