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Post new topic 15/16" Bar vs. 7/8" Bar?
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Author Topic:  15/16" Bar vs. 7/8" Bar?
Erv Niehaus


From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
Post Posted 14 Nov 2017 12:47 pm     Reply with quote

Fred,
Do you think fir would sound as good as oak? Very Happy
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Len Amaral


From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
Post Posted 14 Nov 2017 3:56 pm     Reply with quote

I normally use a 7/8 BJS 10 string bar on my 12 string. I have a 15/16 bar and may try it again because of this topic.

Also, it was years ago that someone mentioned that you are not supposed to use a stainless steel bar with stainless steel strings because it may drag? BJS bars are chrome plated and are fine with nickel or stainless strings.
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Fred Treece


From:
California, USA
Post Posted 14 Nov 2017 6:59 pm     Reply with quote

Erv Niehaus wrote:
Fred,
Do you think fir would sound as good as oak? Very Happy

It works fir me, but it only goes so fir, depending on what kinda tune you're using it fir.
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Bobby D. Jones


From:
West Virginia, USA
Post Posted 14 Nov 2017 9:24 pm     Reply with quote

One of the previous posters asked about the length of 10 string and 12 string bar.
My George L. 10 string bar is 3.382 (slightly over 3 3/8"} long X .993 Diameter.
My 12 string factory made bar is 3.750 long 3 3/4 long X .991 diameter. This bar just covers all 12 strings on my GFI 12 U.
The odd measurements is possible from polishing and coating.
Hope this is of help.
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Jeremy Threlfall


From:
now in Western Australia
Post Posted 14 Nov 2017 10:06 pm     Reply with quote

I always figured the best bar length is determined by the dimensions of your hand, not of the steel. I have a John Pearce Big John (?) which is too long to fit into the palm of my hand comfortably. I never use it

As for width, I play with a 15/16 (BJS) at the minute, but I notice that my intonation is much easier for me to get right with a 7/8 bar.

There are plenty of professional players who use 7/8 bars
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Marco Schouten


From:
Assendelft, The Netherlands
Post Posted 15 Nov 2017 4:54 am     Reply with quote

Erv Niehaus wrote:
Size has already been mentioned. Whoa!


I just read that because of the bigger size, the weight is more. I read nowhere about the effect of a different radius.
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Marco Schouten
JCH SD-10, Quilter Steelaire, Evans SE200, Sho-Bud Volume Pedal, Sho-Bud bar, zirconia bar, Emmons bar, John Pearse bar
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Erv Niehaus


From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
Post Posted 15 Nov 2017 8:38 am     Reply with quote

Marco,
If I remember my math, the radius is directly related to the size of the bar. If I'm not mistaken the radius is 1/2 the diameter. The radius of a 7/8" bar would be .4375" and the radius of a 15/16" bar would be .4688"
I hope this clears things up. Very Happy
Erv
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Andy Henriksen


From:
Michigan, USA
Post Posted 15 Nov 2017 10:00 am     Reply with quote

(ignoring split slant applications for the moment...)

As a lap steeler about to get into PSG, I got a 15/16th bar recently, and one thing that I immediately noticed is that, due to the rounded nose, the larger the diameter, the less "usable" straight length of bar.

A 3.5" x 3/4" bar has about 3-1/8" that can contact the strings, when laying flat on them. A 3.5" x 1" bar has only 3" of "flat" surface.

I don't think this really matters much, but if you are interested in a big fat bar, a lot of the length of the thing will be well above the strings.
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Fred Treece


From:
California, USA
Post Posted 15 Nov 2017 10:16 am     Reply with quote

Great point, Andy.

Another consideration on the "weight vs mass" idea is that a heavier bar makes more work for the fingers and thumb when the bar is pulled back off the higher strings when playing on the lower strings. Also when lifting the back of the bar slightly when playing single note runs. If you just keep the bar flat on all strings all the time, then I suppose it is not an issue.
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Marco Schouten


From:
Assendelft, The Netherlands
Post Posted 15 Nov 2017 11:32 am     Reply with quote

Erv Niehaus wrote:
Marco,
If I remember my math, the radius is directly related to the size of the bar. If I'm not mistaken the radius is 1/2 the diameter. The radius of a 7/8" bar would be .4375" and the radius of a 15/16" bar would be .4688"
I hope this clears things up. Very Happy
Erv


Sure, but in the past there have been discussions about changer fingers, what effect the different radius has on the tone.
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Marco Schouten
JCH SD-10, Quilter Steelaire, Evans SE200, Sho-Bud Volume Pedal, Sho-Bud bar, zirconia bar, Emmons bar, John Pearse bar
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Erv Niehaus


From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
Post Posted 15 Nov 2017 11:40 am     Reply with quote

Aren't you confusing the topic?
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Bob Snelgrove


From:
san jose, ca
Post Posted 15 Nov 2017 3:11 pm     Reply with quote

So, back to my original question:


Does a 15/16 bar have different tone than a 7/8 all things being equal.

Erv might have hit on it with the radius comment. The 15/16 has more material contacting the string and that's why it's a little duller sounding?

I have gone back and forth for days and it is very obviously different

bob
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Pete Bailey


From:
Seattle, WA
Post Posted 15 Nov 2017 5:54 pm     Reply with quote

Andy Henriksen wrote:
A 3.5" x 3/4" bar has about 3-1/8" that can contact the strings, when laying flat on them. A 3.5" x 1" bar has only 3" of "flat" surface.


Andy, this is super interesting. I have noticed that I inadvertently 'buzz' the top string of my grip a little more often with my 15/16" bar than I do with my 7/8" but never thought about the difference in actual contact lengths.

A quick measurement shows that my two 3-3/8" long bars do have a 1/16" inch difference from the butt to where the nose taper begins.

I'm going to try to ride a little 'higher' on the strings with my 15/16" bar now and see if that helps out.
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Chris Reesor


From:
British Columbia, Canada
Post Posted 16 Nov 2017 12:04 am     New to me BJS Reply with quote

15/16 BJS 12 string bar hit my mailbox today.( Thanks, Keith).
Way back when I had the big Dunlop 1"job, but it didn't cut it , too big and heavy for my hand and tough to lift for hammers and pulls, 11.5 oz or so.
So I was hopeful to try this baby out, esp. after all the good stuff everybody says about BJS.
I like it. Just fills my hand nicely, and not hard to lift. Really slick on the strings, but not that slick to grip. I don't think this is the Hughey lite, at 301 grams in a small bubble mailer, so just under 10 oz.
I think the extra weight and sustain is most apparent on the lowest notes, especially with P8.
It's a keeper.
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Per Berner


From:
Skövde, Sweden
Post Posted 16 Nov 2017 7:35 am     Reply with quote

From the very beginning I have used the same 7/8" stainless bar, with a 10 mm hole drilled out. It felt fine, probably because I never tried any other bar.

A few years ago I bought a 1" BJS bar, which was very comfortable to hold, with much improved sustain – but oh so heavy! I've never been a fast player, but this really slowed me down. So I went back to my old bar.

Not long ago I bought a 15/16" John Pearse bar, which seems like the perfect compromise. A little larger for comfort, a little heavier for more sustain, without feeling cumbersome. This one's a keeper.
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Bob Snelgrove


From:
san jose, ca
Post Posted 16 Nov 2017 10:53 pm     Reply with quote

Anyone know what size hole is in he John Hughey 15/16 BJS bar? And final weight?

thx

bob
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Erv Niehaus


From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
Post Posted 17 Nov 2017 7:57 am     Reply with quote

Bob,
I love my John Hughey bar.
There is a plug in the end of the bar so I can't tell how much it was bored out.
I pulled up the BJS site and the 15/16" John Hughey bar weighs 8.6 oz.
I'm sure you would like it! Very Happy
Erv
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Bob Snelgrove


From:
san jose, ca
Post Posted 17 Nov 2017 9:23 am     Reply with quote

Erv Niehaus wrote:
Bob,
I love my John Hughey bar.
There is a plug in the end of the bar so I can't tell how much it was bored out.
I pulled up the BJS site and the 15/16" John Hughey bar weighs 8.6 oz.
I'm sure you would like it! Very Happy
Erv


Thanks, Erv

Is your Hughey bar a 10 or 12 string?

I just talked to Butch at BJS and he says my red label bar is a John Hughey bar with the Aurora gem. 9.5 oz, 3 9/16"

He has been really gracious helping figure out the tonal difference.

thx

bob
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Erv Niehaus


From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
Post Posted 17 Nov 2017 9:26 am     Reply with quote

Mine is a 10 string bar, yours must be a 12 string bar.
Erv
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Bob Snelgrove


From:
san jose, ca
Post Posted 17 Nov 2017 9:59 am     Reply with quote

Erv Niehaus wrote:
Mine is a 10 string bar, yours must be a 12 string bar.
Erv


Yep
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