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Post new topic what are the issues with Keyless?
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Author Topic:  what are the issues with Keyless?
Greg Lambert

 

From:
Illinois, USA
Post  Posted 7 Nov 2017 2:33 pm    
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Or are there any advantages ?
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Sonny Jenkins


From:
Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx
Post  Posted 7 Nov 2017 2:40 pm    
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To me there are ALL the advantages,,,no disadvantages,,,I see no reason whatsoever for tuning keys.
Guess the world premier builders feel the same,,,,Anapeg, Schild, Kline, Ross Shafer's Sierra,,,,
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Michael Hill

 

From:
Arizona, USA
Post  Posted 7 Nov 2017 6:59 pm    
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Advantages:
- Easy string changes
- Improved tuning stability
- Smaller / lighter

IMHO YMMY Smile
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Paul Sutherland

 

From:
Placerville, California
Post  Posted 7 Nov 2017 7:46 pm    
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Some people think they look funny. I'm not one of those people.
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Pete Burak

 

From:
Portland, OR USA
Post  Posted 7 Nov 2017 9:22 pm    
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I like Keyless but mailnly like the ones where you use your fingers to tune the open strings. Some brands/models require a tool for tuning open strings.
I think my favorite Keyless tuners are the big knurled GFI ones, but I have never owned one.
Next is Sierra Session Series Thumb-Screw style.
I just played a Williams Keyless that played and sounded great. I actually like the headstock alot but it does require a tool to tune open strings.
I have a Kline that requires a tool to tune open strings.
There are some Sierra models that require a tool for open strings.
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K Maul


From:
Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL
Post  Posted 7 Nov 2017 10:18 pm    
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I love Williams guitars,but I prefer the ease of reaching up to tune without grabbing a wrench first. I own two GFIs and really like their knurled tuning knobs. They play great and are very easy to deal with in every way.
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Garry Vanderlinde


From:
CA
Post  Posted 8 Nov 2017 6:07 am    
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It can be confusing at times telling the tuning keys apart. One the GFI they are laid out in 2 rows, even numbered and odd. Reaching up quickly and grabbing the wrong string by mistake can be an issue. Whoa!



Last edited by Garry Vanderlinde on 8 Nov 2017 2:42 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Stu Schulman


From:
Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)
Post  Posted 8 Nov 2017 6:12 am    
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I've got absolutely no experience with a keyless guitar.
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Ken Metcalf


From:
San Antonio Texas USA
Post  Posted 8 Nov 2017 6:29 am    
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One disadvantage that applies only to 12 string Universal is that it can crowd the pedals over to the right.
Problem for me as I lower my Es on RKL.
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Richard Sinkler


From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
Post  Posted 8 Nov 2017 7:03 am    
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Ken Metcalf wrote:
One disadvantage that applies only to 12 string Universal is that it can crowd the pedals over to the right.
Problem for me as I lower my Es on RKL.


on my Kline D10, I had to remove the 8th pedal because it was too close to the volume pedal and would stomp on the volume pedal. I took the pedal off as I didn't use the A to B changes on C6, which were on the 8th pedal. That is the only disadvantage I found. Wish I could get that guitar back.
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Bill Ford


From:
Graniteville SC Aiken
Post  Posted 8 Nov 2017 7:21 am    
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I like the keys not in the way when you need to go to an open position(slide over the roller bridge). Finaly got around to changing strings, the only problem is pulling the plain strings too sharp, maybe after a couple more changes, I'll get that part down. Love mine, Lamar S12.
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Pete Burak

 

From:
Portland, OR USA
Post  Posted 8 Nov 2017 7:34 am    
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Bill Ford wrote:
...the only problem is pulling the plain strings too sharp...

When pulling any string up to pitch (while changing strings) I pull it to be in unison with the string two open-notes below, then tune it to pitch with the open-string tuner.
For example, when pulling the high G# up to pitch, I pick the E string and while it's ringing I pull the G# string up to match the E, and then lock it down. Then I tune it up to be in unison with the F# string (using the open-note-tuner) and give it a few pedal pushes to see that all is stable (no obvious string slippage), and then tune to G#, stretch it a few times, and good to go.
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Ian Rae


From:
Redditch, England
Post  Posted 8 Nov 2017 4:28 pm    
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Ken has highlighted the reason I suspect some players resist keyless guitars - it's not the concept that they dislike but the resulting ergonomics.

I hadn't been playing long enough when I swapped to keyless for it to concern me, but I can imagine that if you've spent many years with your left foot living somewhere to the left of the nut, it must seem cramped under there as that space has disappeared.
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Rich Upright


From:
Florida, USA
Post  Posted 9 Nov 2017 5:32 pm    
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This is just my opinion, but I have never heard a keyless that I would say had great tone. They all seem to sound dull & lifeless, as compared to, say, a Zum, Emmons,Franklin,Mullen, etc.
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Abe Levy


From:
California, USA
Post  Posted 10 Nov 2017 7:09 pm    
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I just don't like the way they look. And to me looks count. They look like those Steinberger (is that what they're called?) basses and guitars from the 80s that had no head stock or tuners, just looks silly to me. But that's just my opinion and they seem like functionally reasonable.
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Tiny Olson

 

From:
Mohawk River Valley, Upstate NY
Post  Posted 11 Nov 2017 6:06 am    
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Richard hit on a good point regarding pedal position. All pedals will be nearer to the right (near vol. ped.) side of the keyless guitar. If you are tall with long legs and big feet, playing a keyless guitar may be uncomfortable for you.

I've never owned one but did sit down at one at the convention one time. For the reasons I mentioned above, a keyless guitar could never work for me personally. I have nothing against them. For me, the ergonomics just don't work.

Chris "Tiny" O.
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Bill Ford


From:
Graniteville SC Aiken
Post  Posted 11 Nov 2017 6:50 am    
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Tiny makes a good point. When switching from my keyless to keyed, there is a definate position difference.I leave the keyless setup at Church, and the keyed at home for practice, so there it isn't really an issue for me.
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b0b


From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
Post  Posted 11 Nov 2017 8:28 am    
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With tuning keys, each string has a different harmonic resonance because of the string length in the key head. On a keyless, those differences are removed, resulting in a more consistent tone from one string to the next.

Whether this is good or bad is a matter of personal taste for some people. I like them both. Every guitar sounds different anyway. Keyed vs. keyless is just one part of that difference.

As for advantages, I can change strings a lot faster on a keyless. I've never experienced the problem that Bill Ford mentioned above (pulling the plain strings too sharp) on a Sierra or Williams keyless.

The tuning wrench I use is the same one that tunes the pedals. I keep it handy in a clip-on block on the left leg of the guitar. I don't miss having fingered tuning knobs at all.
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Greg Cutshaw


From:
Corry, PA, USA
Post  Posted 11 Nov 2017 11:04 am    
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The Excel has a tool holder built right into the guitar! Shown here with the tools sitting next to the holder. The holder grips the tools so that they don't fall out even if you tip the guitar upside down.


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Bruce Derr

 

From:
Lee, New Hampshire, USA
Post  Posted 11 Nov 2017 12:15 pm    
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Regarding appearance, to me it's the older guitars with extra long keyheads that look a bit odd, sort of like an old car with tail fins - cool, but a dated look. The compact keyheads on some newer guitars look better. I can see how keyless guitars would have a "chopped off" appearance to some. They look normal to me, but I've owned a Kline since 1978.
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Greg Cutshaw


From:
Corry, PA, USA
Post  Posted 11 Nov 2017 12:31 pm    
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The older Lacquer finished guitars are starting to look like huge stage hogging pieces of fine furniture to me. I used to love the old Sho-Buds but now I crave the new smaller more compact guitars that take up a lot less room on stage and in the studio and have a more conservative look to them. My MSA Legend achieved a nice balance between old world lacquer appearance and a super compact body with modern appointments. The super low weight legs were a big part of the weight reduction.
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