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Topic: Cabinet Drop |
Dennis Manuel
From:
Quesnel, B.C., Canada
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Posted 18 Sep 2017 9:43 am |
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| In cents, what is considered acceptable/normal cabinet drop? |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 18 Sep 2017 3:01 pm
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If you can hear it but you can't correct for it by slanting your tone bar ever so slightly, it's unacceptable. Just my two pennyworth. What's that in cents?
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 18 Sep 2017 6:51 pm
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| Ian Rae wrote: |
| What's that in cents? |
About two and three quarter, me thinks...
... and that's really stretching it  |
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Jerry Kippola
From:
UP Michigan, USA
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Posted 19 Sep 2017 6:50 am
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| i usually have around 4.5 cents drop on my Zum with two pedals down |
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Larry Bressington
From:
Nebraska
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Posted 19 Sep 2017 11:09 am
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Ol sho-bud and MSA about 2 cents with A/B pedals down open, a basset hound couldn't hear that. Your bar placement will be off more than that on a good day.
_________________
A.K.A Chappy. |
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John Goux
From:
California, USA
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Posted 19 Sep 2017 5:03 pm
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The less, the better.
Guitars can measurably range from .05, to 8 cents, on the E's with pedals down.
In our era of single necks and zero pedals, cab drops of 2 to 5 are common.
D10s without a zero pedal have an advantage, and can have almost no drop. Our predecessors with big heavy guitars had less drop to deal with. Day setups do not fare as well.
We can adjust where we place the bar. The issue is, the difference in flat (or sharp) between different strings in a chord or interval. 3 note chords, pretty tricky to fix with a tiny slant. If every string dropped by the same amount, it would be easy, but they don't.
Bottom line is, on a guitar with less drop, we have a simpler job playing in tune.
J |
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john widgren
From:
Wilton CT
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Posted 20 Sep 2017 1:57 pm cab drop
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I agree about zero pedals...more cab drop. Also S-10s with pedals shifted to the right, and Day setups.
That being said; Frequently what is thought to be cabinet drop, is something else... often set-up related.
_________________
Steel Guitar Services:
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(203) 858-8498
widcj@hotmail.com |
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Ron Pruter
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 23 Sep 2017 7:35 pm
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I'm sure cabinet drop is being measured many, many different ways. I think we should always state what we did to come up with our figure. RP
_________________
Emmons SKH Le Grande, '73 Fender P/J bass, Tick tack bass, Regal high strung, USA Nashville 112. |
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Peter Harris
From:
South Australia, Australia
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Posted 24 Sep 2017 5:22 am
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| Ron Pruter wrote: |
| I'm sure cabinet drop is being measured many, many different ways. I think we should always state what we did to come up with our figure. RP |
With Fedex, it's probably the height from which it was dropped.... 
_________________
If my wife is reading this, I don't have much stuff....really! |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 24 Sep 2017 7:09 am
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| Ron Pruter wrote: |
| I think we should always state what we did to come up with our figure. |
Right ... well, here are my procedures...
If there's an audible problem, before measuring anything I divide the problem in...
"a: relative detuning" = one or more strings detune relative to other strings, and...
"b: absolute detuning" = all strings go too much out of tune.
As both "a" and "b" detuning are affected by choice of strings, I check, and possibly replace, those.
- Some string brands and gauges react in pitch on shorter throw than others, and a change of strings may reduce, or increase, the detuning problem. On an otherwise good instrument, it pays to test out different strings before concluding that "body drop" detuning is a real problem.
Once at the point where I cannot do more to reduce a "body drop" detuning problem without modifying the instrument, I measure and write down unwanted detuning for each string. I may use a StroboPlussHD for the job, or a more accurate frequency counter. Doesn't matter which one that's used, as they usually land on same numbers with a few more (unimportant) decimals for the frequency counter. A quick calculation gives number in cents - if needed. I'm quite happy with "absolute Hertz" readouts myself, as that's what I have been dealing with for the last 50+ years.
I have so far concluded that a "relative detuning" of more than 2.5 cents most often cause too much irritation to bother playing the instrument, while I sometimes find an "absolute detuning" of up to 4 cents quite acceptable.
BTW: my personal experience is that the "cabinet" as such rarely ever "drop" enough under pedal-stress to contribute much to what we call "body drop". The problem is nearly always related to weaknesses in changer and keyhead attachments to the cabinet - they "give" under varying string tension.
Only as reference: regardless of pedal-combo, my modified Dekley measure less than 0.3 cents relative detuning for all but the 8th string. That 8th string can be forced to about 0.8 cents relative detuning. Absolute detuning is about 1 cent. I'm happy with that.
- Strings used while measuring: LSS Custom Nickel-wound with gauges for my personal tuning.
My unmodified Dekley, with same choice of strings and pretty similar tuning, measure about 2 cents absolute detuning. I'm happy with that too.
My other PSGs vary, and two of them show above 5 cents absolute detuning. I'm not happy with those. |
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Drew Pierce
From:
Arkansas, USA
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Posted 24 Sep 2017 7:53 am
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A simple way to measure actual cabinet drop is to press any center-most pedals all the way to their stops, and then press a bit harder to see if the pitch continues to drop. Any drop in pitch beyond the full stop of the pedals is likely true cabinet drop. And BTW, you can make just about any guitar body flex, causing "cabinet drop" if you apply too much downward pressure on the pedals after they've reached their full travel. S10s are generally less prone to cab drop for obvious reasons.
_________________
Drew Pierce
Emmons D10 Fatback, S10 bolt-on, Zum D10, Evans RE500, Hilton volume and delay pedals. |
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Ron Pruter
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 24 Sep 2017 12:25 pm
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First thing I always check is I push the C pedal down and see how many cents flatter the 6th string goes.
This is usually when I decide to go to a wound 6th, which helps.
Second thing I'm concerned about is when I step on A and B; how much does the 4th string go flat? Actually I feel that this one should be the standardized check. RP
_________________
Emmons SKH Le Grande, '73 Fender P/J bass, Tick tack bass, Regal high strung, USA Nashville 112. |
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