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Post new topic tuner keys for Sho-Bud super pro
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Author Topic:  tuner keys for Sho-Bud super pro
Stuart Legg


Post  Posted 12 Sep 2017 11:54 am    
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Who sales them?
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Storm Rosson

 

From:
Silver City, NM. USA
Post  Posted 12 Sep 2017 5:35 pm    
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Stuart, I don't know if you are needing a special brand or what came on a SP originally, but you can find the mini Grovers on FleaBay in sets of 10 pretty reasonable. I am not sure if they will fit but they are specifically made for psg, give'em a look....Stormy Smile
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Larry Bressington


From:
Nebraska
Post  Posted 12 Sep 2017 6:28 pm    
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I'm not sure what Grover model they used, but just a heads up there are many different Grover models, if you can use a dial caliper to measure the shaft length, and width etc, then you can go on Grover website and check them all out as they have their diagrams broken down in dimensions in model number.

I had a hell of a time with my old MSA, so I ended up doing a sweet conversion to a 18-1 ratio with keystone heads (sweet n smoove) . I don't think you'll have that problem with the sho- bud because they were pretty standard I think, but I thought I'd mention it.
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Brint Hannay

 

From:
Maryland, USA
Post  Posted 12 Sep 2017 8:23 pm    
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There's no reason to think Sho-Bud consistently used a particular brand or model of tuning machines on Super Pros throughout, but FWIW my '78 Super Pro (I bought it in '84) has Sperzels. I don't know where to get them for PSG.
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Tony Prior


From:
Charlotte NC
Post  Posted 13 Sep 2017 12:29 am    
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First question....What brand tuners are on the Super Pro ? I suspect Sperzels.

My late model Super Pro also had Sperzels, as did may late model Pro I. The same tuners. These are also the same tuners used on the latest model Emmons Push Pulls.

We cannot just change the tuners, Sperzels have a different shaft diameter size than the Grover 210's . Plus the mounting pins are in different locations. These particular tuning machines are NOT available from Sperzel anymore. It's possible that one of the Emmons parts guys may have some Sperzels sittin' around.
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Kevin Mincke


From:
Farmington, MN (Twin Cities-South Metro) USA
Post  Posted 13 Sep 2017 5:44 am    
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My S~P tuning head has the narrower (1/4") with Sperzels. I also have a Pro I with the tuning head being much thicker (1/2") where the tuners mount. The ProI has the standard Grover milk bottle type on them but is squared off on the end like S~P. Neil Lang put Grovers on his "Rose" S~P when he rebuilt it as it had the wider tuning head. They were the 18:1 rotomatics (gold color) as he originally was going to put the 210's on but wouldn't work.

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Storm Rosson

 

From:
Silver City, NM. USA
Post  Posted 13 Sep 2017 7:05 am    
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Well as it turns out I have a set of the Sperzels for the 1/4" head .I'll check them out to make sure they are in good functional shape, Stuart if you want just pm me and we'll figure out a little deal or trade something...Stormy Smile
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Greg Gefell


From:
Upstate NY
Post  Posted 13 Sep 2017 5:34 pm    
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Stuart - I just bought these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Grover-210C-5X5-Mini-Tuning-Keys-For-Pedal-Steel-Guitar-CHROME/391473875451?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649, but they do not fit in my Gumby head. Not sure if thats the same dimensions as what you have. The little anti-rotation pin does not line up with the hole. I hope the seller has a larger model. If not, does anyone know of a replacement from an alternate vendor?

This is really annoying because the tuners would fit perfectly otherwise and the shorter posts on these would mean I don't have to grind them down for strings 5 and 6 like I've read many others having to do.


Mad
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Kevin Mincke


From:
Farmington, MN (Twin Cities-South Metro) USA
Post  Posted 13 Sep 2017 6:45 pm    
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You can still buy the Grover "rotomatics" in 14:1 or 18:1 ratio for gumby heads or the wider S~P style as I mentioned above. AllParts or WDMusic thru Amazon as well.
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Bruce Blackburn


From:
Nashville, Tennessee
Post  Posted 14 Sep 2017 1:15 am     Sperzel
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I had a tuner lock up on a Super pro a few years back. I called Sperzel. They told me They were guaranteed for a lifetime. They instructed me to send them the bad key. I did. In just a couple of days a new one arrived that was exactly like the one I sent in. That is a company that truly stands behind their product.
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Tony Prior


From:
Charlotte NC
Post  Posted 14 Sep 2017 6:33 am    
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The factory Sperzel anti rotation pins ( roll pins ) do not line up with the Grover 210 pins, which are part of the body, not roll pins.
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Michael Yahl


From:
Troy, Texas!
Post  Posted 14 Sep 2017 7:07 am    
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On the older gumby heads, they usually used the Grover 102C ("C" is for chrome) milk bottle style. They have the small tab on the side for the anti-rotation screw.

I just checked and it appears that Grover has changed the ID on these to 102CV for the Vintage series. https://www.grotro.com/Grover/ROTOMATICS/Original-Milk-Bottle-Style-Rotomatics-102V-Series

And it is true that the ends of 1 bass and 1 treble shafts will have to be ground/filed off for them to fit into the keyhead on strings 5&6.

I believe that the Sperzels were not used until the Super Pro came along. (May be wrong on that)

Just FYI, when using most any tuning machine on the narrower heads, the small hollow nut that secures them in the keyhead must be ground down on the length. If you try to overtighten or don't grind/machine the end it will bottom out and very likely shear off inside the tuning machine. This leads to a stream of foul words that the kids/grandkids shouldn't hear.
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'72 Sho-Bud Professional D10, (in pieces .....), '78 MSA Classic XL D10, '69 Emmons PP, Fender 2000
Peavey Session 500 BW, Crate Digital Modeling Amp

PSG PARTS
http://www.psgparts.com/
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Tony Prior


From:
Charlotte NC
Post  Posted 14 Sep 2017 11:27 am    
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Michael is very correct in the time line with regard to the earlier Grover 102C's, this thread however refers to a Super Pro, just a heads-up.
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CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website
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Greg Gefell


From:
Upstate NY
Post  Posted 14 Sep 2017 12:32 pm    
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Thanks for that information Michael. I didn't mean to derail Stuart's thread with my question but since both of us got answers this thread is now good reference for any ShoBud owner who needs replacement tuners.
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Michael Yahl


From:
Troy, Texas!
Post  Posted 14 Sep 2017 4:55 pm    
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Yeah Tony, my bad. I got off on a tangent and lost the gist of the OP. My apologies to Stuart and all.
_________________
"Don't fergit to kiss yer horse!"
'72 Sho-Bud Professional D10, (in pieces .....), '78 MSA Classic XL D10, '69 Emmons PP, Fender 2000
Peavey Session 500 BW, Crate Digital Modeling Amp

PSG PARTS
http://www.psgparts.com/
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Michael Yahl


From:
Troy, Texas!
Post  Posted 14 Sep 2017 5:10 pm    
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If you go to the StewMac website and look for tuning machines, they provide drawings and most all of the dimensions for all of the tuning machines that they sell. This is one of those really good resources!

Here's an example http://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and_Parts/Tuning_Machines/Solid_Peghead_Guitar_Tuning_Machines/Sperzel_Trim-Lok_3and3_Guitar_Machines.html
Scroll down the page to see the drawing.

You do need to have some method of measuring with a relatively high degree of accuracy but there's enough information that you should be able to get really close to what you need.
_________________
"Don't fergit to kiss yer horse!"
'72 Sho-Bud Professional D10, (in pieces .....), '78 MSA Classic XL D10, '69 Emmons PP, Fender 2000
Peavey Session 500 BW, Crate Digital Modeling Amp

PSG PARTS
http://www.psgparts.com/
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Godfrey Arthur

 

From:
3rd Rock
Post  Posted 14 Sep 2017 10:01 pm    
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According to Ron at Sperzel as of 7/3/17 they don't have the "big body" (Ron's words) units like on my '81 Pro.

But he did offer to service them if you send the tuners to them.





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Tony Prior


From:
Charlotte NC
Post  Posted 15 Sep 2017 4:15 am    
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The Sperzels can be removed and somewhat taken apart. The main issue is they used a grease on the internal gear that hardened over time. The tuners used on the Sho Buds and Emmons guitars ( same tuners) are no longer available from Sperzel.

So now what ?

Yeah we can remove them all from the key head and send them back to Sperzel and they will do their best to free up the hardened grease. I was told by Sperzel that they soak them in diesel fuel after removing the button top and screw which allows the shaft to drop down maybe 1/4 of an inch, which is workable.


I took apart a few, some came totally apart, others did not. The ones that came apart were a 100% fix, removed the old grease and re-greased. The ones that did not come apart are probably 50% better, I let them soak in a solvent , turned them a few million times , some old grease came dropping out. I added some new lube and reinstalled. Every tuner now turns and are acceptable.

This was done on a Sho Bud Pro I ( late) and a few on an Emmons D10.
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years

CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website
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