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Post new topic 7-String Rickenbacher [Please DELETE]
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Author Topic:  7-String Rickenbacher [Please DELETE]
Glenn Booth


From:
Colorado, USA
Post Posted 8 Sep 2017 9:59 am     Reply with quote

DELETE

Last edited by Glenn Booth on 8 Oct 2017 7:18 am; edited 2 times in total
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Erv Niehaus


From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
Post Posted 8 Sep 2017 10:20 am     Reply with quote

Some of the pictures show 8 tuners.
Is it a 7 string guitar or an 8 string?
Or is it a 7 string body with an 8 string neck and head?
I'm confused.
Erv Whoa!
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C Dixon


From:
Duluth, GA USA
Post Posted 8 Sep 2017 10:35 am     Reply with quote

I am too.

Several photos show 8 strings. Yet several photos shows only 7 strings going over the nut. In one, it seems almost impossible for the nut to support 8 strings.

Were all the photos taken of the same guitar?

???

I am interested. So what is the price please. What about shipping also,

c.

_________________
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Glenn Booth


From:
Colorado, USA
Post Posted 8 Sep 2017 10:39 am     Reply with quote

Yes, all these pictures are taken of the same guitar. The headstock has 8 tuners and one is not used as this is a 7-string lap steel.
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Erv Niehaus


From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
Post Posted 8 Sep 2017 10:43 am     Reply with quote

Carl,
The body of he guitar of the guitar is drilled for 7 strings. But, if you look close at the head, one of the tuners is not being used and it looks like the nut has been re-slotted for 7 strings, as the string spacing is not uniform.
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C Dixon


From:
Duluth, GA USA
Post Posted 8 Sep 2017 11:00 am     Reply with quote

I believe now this is indeed a 7 string Rick bakelite built after August 31, 1937. It also is probably Pre-War II, not sure. The patent on the PU was issued on this date. ALL Ricks made from that point on had the serial number of the PU embedded in the silver strip that mounts the magnets to the body. This is NOT to be confused with the serial number of the guitar. That is embossed in the bakelite near where the strings are threaded into the body.

It appears that the keys were changed, but 7 string (1-4 and 1-3) key set kits are almost impossible to procure. I imagine that an 8 strip kit (2 fours) were used and the far left hole had to be drilled; while the original hole has no key-peg in it..

This will NOT affect the sound of this guitar. In fact, this makes the guitar easy to change keys whenever necessary. It looks in excellent condition. It also appears that the person who changed the keys did a fantastic job; because bakelite* is very brittle when drilling; thus, many a keyhead has been broken by trying to drill into this bakelite. So this guitar looks awesome.

Please give us a price. I am interested.

c.

* Adolph Rickenbacker (creator and owner of these guitars) was so frustrated over the bakelite breaking during manufacturing; that he finally consented and made metal Ricks. They NEVER had the sound of the bakelite Ricks.
Jerry Byrd said, and many agree, "there is NO lapsteel on earth that has that awesome sound; as these bakelite beauties".

Finally, the Ricks that have the sheet metal "outrigger" support for the strings have even poorer sound, sadly. The new owner (F. C. Hall succeeding Adolph) insisted that the outrigger he designed made NO difference in the sound. JB said that was NOT true! Rick owners almost always agree with Jerry. May Jesus rest his dear soul.


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A broken heart + † = a new heart.


Last edited by C Dixon on 8 Sep 2017 11:31 am; edited 2 times in total
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Glenn Booth


From:
Colorado, USA
Post Posted 8 Sep 2017 11:04 am     Reply with quote

C. Dixon - Thanks very much for all the great info! I am working on getting this valued...as of now, I have no idea.
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Jon Light


From:
Saugerties, NY
Post Posted 8 Sep 2017 11:19 am     Reply with quote

I'm thinking you have a 7 string body mismatched to an 8 string neck. I'm trying to make sense of the white square masks of the screws on the back. I don't understand what I'm seeing there.

3 + 4 headstocks certainly exist.

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Willis Vanderberg


From:
Petoskey Mi
Post Posted 8 Sep 2017 11:25 am     Reply with quote

Looks a little weird as the first and seventh string are wound backwards . The string spacing is also strange. Can someone post a picture of the original seven string showing the back of the head stock and the string spacing ?
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Glenn Booth


From:
Colorado, USA
Post Posted 8 Sep 2017 11:26 am     Reply with quote

the white-ish squares on the back appear to be Band-Aids(tm) cut into squares to keep the screws from rubbing one's leg... these were installed from previous owner Smile
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Glenn Booth


From:
Colorado, USA
Post Posted 8 Sep 2017 11:30 am     Reply with quote

The bridge, which appears to be part of the body, not attached-on, is for 7-string, and the 7 holes through the body appear to be the original configuration. The reverse winding is a simple 1-minute 'fix'!
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Glenn Booth


From:
Colorado, USA
Post Posted 8 Sep 2017 11:36 am     Reply with quote

Jon Light - I think you nailed it... an 8 string neck on 7 string body.... that would explain much of this mystery...
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Jon Light


From:
Saugerties, NY
Post Posted 8 Sep 2017 11:42 am     Reply with quote

The absence of the headstock badge (or screw holes for it) makes me think that it is one of these, with the flip-top missing. Neither of my Rics has the cover so I'm not familiar with what it looks like underneath.

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C Dixon


From:
Duluth, GA USA
Post Posted 8 Sep 2017 11:43 am     Reply with quote

Jon may indeed be correct; but studying the photo where the strings go over the nut, I simply cannot make 8 strings work.

Note: it was not uncommon for some players to wrap the 1st and last strings opposite to prevent a very steep angle coming off the nut. If I am not mistaken Jerry did this several times.

Also, I now believe the guitar was "post" WWII; due to the thin white markings on either side of the frets. But I am not sure. But of course, if Jon is correct, that would explain that.

There is NO exact way (except for the patent date of the PU mentioned earlier) to determine a Rick's age by the body serial number. The records are simply not there sadly.

c.

_________________
A broken heart + † = a new heart.


Last edited by C Dixon on 9 Sep 2017 4:41 am; edited 2 times in total
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Jon Zimmerman


From:
California, USA
Post Posted 8 Sep 2017 12:39 pm     Re-necked Reply with quote

Fairly obvious to me. Some owner, maybe the original, broke the 7 str. neck, had to get another put on.. only one avail to use may have been an 8 str. For what reason a 7 could not be obtained, no one knows. All these were built in "batch" runs, could be it was simply much easier to obtain/adapt an '8' to the orig body/pup. Hence, no serial # stamp on the top edge of '8' s head.

I would say it won't matter if buyers quest is(the sound it produces) overall ease of play.. that is what players would be most interested in. Price accordingly. JZ


Last edited by Jon Zimmerman on 8 Sep 2017 1:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Glenn Booth


From:
Colorado, USA
Post Posted 8 Sep 2017 12:48 pm     Reply with quote

Thanks Jon Z - you are on it! Any idea of the price range of this instrument?
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Jon Zimmerman


From:
California, USA
Post Posted 8 Sep 2017 1:39 pm     Reply with quote

Glenn: my last reply flew off into the ether somehow. You can also check out the entries on the Steel without Pedals page..look over posts, PM some who may already be VERY familiar with Ric's of all types. Like ..Ben Elder, Ric Aiello (sp?), Andy Volk, many many others..IF they are not busy dodging Hurricanes! Ask if they will look over this thread.
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Marc Bell


From:
Surat Thani, TH
Post Posted 8 Sep 2017 3:35 pm     Reply with quote

Glenn, a very nice B7 - similar age to yours - closed recently on Ebay, it was a Buy it Now for $1,600 and sold soon after listing. The condition of this sold one is excellent, yours with the 8 string tuners and strange bolt mounts on the rear of the body will probably not have such appeal for collectors so the value of yours should be "a bit" less.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rickenbacher-B7-7-String-1937-lap-steel-/263167135724?hash=item3d45fbcfec%3Ag%3A~MkAAOSwGdhZoFvW&nma=true&si=HlHhMOZpKhWI4hLaogIK9fLd7CM%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
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Glenn Booth


From:
Colorado, USA
Post Posted 10 Sep 2017 9:38 am     Reply with quote

all - here's more pics of the the head stock and the nut. There's no places that I can see where new holes were drilled and old holes patched. In other words, it does not appear to be a 7-string neck, drilled to accommodate 8 tuning pegs. Now, another mystery for me... the nut is part of the neck assembly (not attached) is is slotted for 7-strings, and no signs of it being slotted for 8-strings... so now I am thinking this has always been a 7-string neck... confusing.

Also, anyone know what the round divot on the back is? I see this on many other Ricks. (see new pic)

A guys recently sold his Rick B7 on ebay and I noticed his string spacey was bit off, just like mine... more confusion! (see new pic)

Thanks for everyone's input! Sooner or later I'll put this up for sale... still interested in trading (+cash) for a PSG too, either SD-10/D-10.







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C Dixon


From:
Duluth, GA USA
Post Posted 10 Sep 2017 11:12 am     Reply with quote

Thank you Glen,

I am also confused. I see these pictures and I now retract my earlier comment, concerning drilling.

But, like you said, it clearly shows a nut that is grooved for only 7 strings. But the photos shows clearly that the keyhead was drilled with 4 and 4 equi-distant holes???

Since the nut was always a PART of the neck when manufactured, it just does not make since; UNLESS, someone may have re-done the nut.

I have seen this done (The late and great Tom Brumley's was one of them) where they ground the nut down and then rebuilt it with black epoxy and re-grooved it. Sadly it was NOT a good job.

For what it's worth, Tom tried hard to trade his for mine. But when I saw the poor work, I said, "no thanks". He said, 'I fully understand!", and we both laughed.

It does appear on this one that IF that happened, it was a good job. So I again will still say that it would be a good buy for one looking for a 7 string Rick. IF it has the sound (classic "Rick" moan), it would be VERY valuable IMHO.

In one of Tom's last albums, "In Time", he played that "pre-war" 7 string Rick on two of the songs, "Steel Guitar Rag" and "Hawaiian Wedding Song".

(Note: he played as close as he could the exact same way JB did it on his original recording of SGR. He asked Wayne Tanner to teach him how Jerry got that unbelievable embellishment "runs"; and Wayne did it. Tom practiced it for weeks before the album was recorded).

It is awesome. All the other songs were done on his "Anapeg" built by Noel Ansteg in Australia. The sound on that PSG is unbelievably beautiful also. And no one could play it like Tom. The entire album has some of the smoothest and sweetest SG sounds I have ever heard. May Jesus rest his dear soul. I will miss him 'til the day I die

c.

_________________
A broken heart + † = a new heart.
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Jon Zimmerman


From:
California, USA
Post Posted 10 Sep 2017 11:57 am     Bakelite Reply with quote

Keep in mind, guys, in the days of early plastics, producing the components to make these Rics was an all- new field.. that round 'sump' hole may have been a casting "index" aligner, or a vent hole (flue?) or even the fill point for the liquid carbon mix. Try Googling "Bakelite" .. OR..go Wikipedia..landing on "Applications and uses" ..a reference to Jerry Byrds steels is mentioned...see if that 'fills in' the blank. And remember, suppliers sent 'blanks' to finishers on down a product line, and this "new miracle" plastic was also made into Radios, insulators, etc. AND could be quite brittle, till later formulas 'panned out'.
JZ
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Willis Vanderberg


From:
Petoskey Mi
Post Posted 11 Sep 2017 1:43 pm     Reply with quote

The posts on the seven string side are a smaller diameter and I have seen some that had mandolin tuners on them. It appear the the neck was drilled for smaller shaft diameter tuners.
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Paul Brainard


From:
Portland OR
Post Posted 12 Sep 2017 10:42 am     Reply with quote

My guess, as others have said - it was a replacement neck, but only 8-string necks were available. Maybe the owner was able to get one with a raw nut from the factory, or have them slot it for 7 strings. . .

But that extra tuner is a great feature if you have small children, that's the one they get to twist while you are practicing. If you put a loose string in it and a cat toy on the other end (if you have a cat too,) that could produce many minutes of semi-uninterrupted playing time for you.
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Erv Niehaus


From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
Post Posted 12 Sep 2017 11:02 am     Reply with quote

It might be an optical illusion, but to my eyes, there appears to be a larger space between the 5th and 6th stings than between the others.
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