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Topic: Power amp... vol. control level |
Tom Campbell
From:
Houston, Texas, USA
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Posted 18 Aug 2017 3:21 pm |
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Is it the power amp that determines the volume of the speaker output?
I have a pre-amp "out" that is connected to a direct box that connects to a mixer board. Does the signal from the direct box stay at the same level regardless of the amplifier's volume level.
Thanks for any info! |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 18 Aug 2017 3:37 pm
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Many power amps have a volume control, many do not.
If you don't see a volume control, reduce the preamp output level.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Tom Campbell
From:
Houston, Texas, USA
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Posted 18 Aug 2017 4:06 pm
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I have a single volume control. Does this volume control the pre-amp output or the power amp output?
I was under the impression the direct box stepped the signal down to a pre-determined low level for the mixer board regardless of the pre-amp output.
My impression may be incorrect concerning this. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 18 Aug 2017 4:24 pm
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Usually, but not always, the amplification of the power amp is fixed, and the volume knob regulates preamp gain.
Since "preamp out" is usually line level, I'd imagine a direct box on that line would be used either to convert impedance, convert from ¼" to XLR, or (my guess) both.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Tom Campbell
From:
Houston, Texas, USA
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Posted 18 Aug 2017 5:52 pm
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You jogged my memory...the direct box drops the impedance.
I'm using my amp as a monitor with the pre-amp going to the mixer board. So if the sound guy sets my guitar at a specific volume level, and I increase the amps volume on my end, I would then mess up his board mix for my guitar? |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 18 Aug 2017 6:09 pm
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With most amps (as in almost all), yes it would, because the power amp has a fixed output ratio, and giving yourself more volume opens up the preamp.
Even a master volume knob works on the preamp.
If you want more of your amp in your ears without changing the house balance, move the amp closer to your ears, so you hear more of it.
(if you want more of you in the house, make sure your amp isn't aimed at the engineer; s/he'll reduce your mix in relation to how much of your amp goes to the house: when my amp gets miked, I try to put it next to my seat, aiming up at me).
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Tom Campbell
From:
Houston, Texas, USA
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Posted 18 Aug 2017 6:17 pm
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| Thanks for the info Lane. I'm required to wear earbuds...that don't work worth a #*!n, so I have to rely on my amp (monitor). |
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Steve Gall
From:
Las Vegas, Nevada
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Posted 21 Aug 2017 5:57 pm
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| Invest in the Live Wires. Get a good fit for the earpiece. If your using buds, they are lame. Just plug these into the beltpack. I love mine! And they won't break the bank. Great low end. http://www.mylivewires.com/. I have a Shure P4M that allows me to split the signal from the steel mic and mix that with the input from the monitor board if I need it. That way I have control over me in my mix. |
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Godfrey Arthur
From:
3rd Rock
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Posted 21 Aug 2017 6:09 pm Re: Power amp... vol. control level
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| Tom Campbell wrote: |
| Does the signal from the direct box stay at the same level regardless of the amplifier's volume level. |
The direct box sends the mixer a LOW impedance signal to go over a long length of cable. It has nothing to do with controlling volume per se. The photo below shows a typical use of a DI.
This is done because you sending a long high impedance signal cable from your instrument to the mixer which might be 100 feet away from you is like to trying fill a swimming pool with a straw. The impedances would not be proper and you would suffer signal loss, at many frequencies.
The direct box still has to go through a preamp section of the mixer. The DI (direct box) just converts your instrument's high impedance signal to low impedance to get the signal to arrive at the mixer intact.
Results vary as to the quality of sound on the quality of the transformer in your DI.
The Jensens are a standard of quality in DI transformers for pro stage and studio.
| Quote: |
You jogged my memory...the direct box drops the impedance.
I'm using my amp as a monitor with the pre-amp going to the mixer board. So if the sound guy sets my guitar at a specific volume level, and I increase the amps volume on my end, I would then mess up his board mix for my guitar? |
You would increase stage volume by adjusting your amp but that would depend on what else is going on on stage, what and where are there extra mics.
If you are using ear buds, (I take it these are In Ear Monitors-IEM'S) that would block you from hearing your amp properly and if you turn up the amp you are defeating the overall purpose of earbuds. This means that your being able to hear yourself is a function of the sound person running the PA. In most pro situations there is not only a sound man running the FOH (front of house) PA system there is another soundman/men running a completely separate mixer for stage volume and mixing what each musician hears, who of and how much off to the side of the stage. This involves a more complex system of mixdowns and the mixer used for monitor mixes is a different animal altogether. These are able to provide custom mixes for each person on the stage. Meaning you can choose to hear most of you and less of everyone else or just you, the singer, the bass player, your choice.
If your gigs are sporting spartan PA gear, then a headphone mixer system can be used to give each musician the ability to turn him/herself up or down along with a few other players on the stage.
Without knowing what gear you are using here is a basic idea video of how that would happen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_MKUHZKY08
Better quality ear buds could also help out but basically you need to fight for your right to hear yourself in your buds and if the gear and expertise to achieve that is lacking, then the cliche "YMMV" is the result.
| Quote: |
Is it the power amp that determines the volume of the speaker output? |
Yes and no.
Some power amps have volume controls and many do not which means the valve gate or the volume control gas pedal resides in your preamp.
Turning up your preamp that feeds the direct box will most likely change the volume going to the mixer, but that is the soundman's job to fix.
Better solution is run the direct box out of your guitar (after your volume pedal) NOT YOUR PREAMP this way the signal level though the direct box will not change except for your swells from the volume pedal.
Then you can turn your amp up without affecting the level sent to the PA. You would have to do a line check on your volume pedal swells as it appears in the PA mixer. But again it is the soundman's job to be able to mix your instrument such as it is with a volume pedal.
After that it's how your band works with the stage volume and each other on stage to pulse as a unit and a good soundman who knows your music and each song's quirks.
_________________
ShoBud The Pro 1
YES it's my REAL NAME!
Ezekiel 33:7 |
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Tom Campbell
From:
Houston, Texas, USA
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Posted 22 Aug 2017 6:04 am
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Thanks Godfrey...that's a lot to digest!
Question:
I'm running guitar > distortion pedal > volume pedal > other effects pedal > amp-input (the amps front panel input jack).
Are you suggesting I should put the direct box after the volume pedal, but before the other effects pedal? Or, after the other effects pedal, but before the amps input jack? |
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Godfrey Arthur
From:
3rd Rock
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Posted 22 Aug 2017 9:32 am
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| Tom Campbell wrote: |
Thanks Godfrey...that's a lot to digest!
Question:
I'm running guitar > distortion pedal > volume pedal > other effects pedal > amp-input (the amps front panel input jack).
Are you suggesting I should put the direct box after the volume pedal, but before the other effects pedal? Or, after the other effects pedal, but before the amps input jack? |
Tom,
You can place the direct box at the end of all that you've described:
volume pedal>distortion>effects>direct box.
If your direct box has two outputs as most do, you plug your guitar's last effects pedal's output in the chain, into the input on the direct box BEFORE YOUR AMP, then send one output of the direct box to the mixer, it usually is the one with the XLR balanced output and the other (1/4 inch guitar jack output) to your amp.
You should tell your soundman before the show about your connection change and practice playing a song where you use all your effects and step on your volume pedal as loud as you plan to play so he can get levels at his mixer. Then during the gig he can adjust your channel within the band mix.
This way if you turn up your amp on stage during the show, the level at the mixer won't change because you've split your guitar's signal before the amp to go to the mixer and to the amp both.
_________________
ShoBud The Pro 1
YES it's my REAL NAME!
Ezekiel 33:7 |
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Tom Campbell
From:
Houston, Texas, USA
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Posted 22 Aug 2017 11:45 am
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| Thanks Godfrey...got it. I appreciate the diagrams...my sound man thanks you too!!! |
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Godfrey Arthur
From:
3rd Rock
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Posted 22 Aug 2017 12:11 pm
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| Tom Campbell wrote: |
| Thanks Godfrey...got it. I appreciate the diagrams...my sound man thanks you too!!! |
Most welcome Tom. 
_________________
ShoBud The Pro 1
YES it's my REAL NAME!
Ezekiel 33:7 |
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